SOURCE . Leading to SINK . Can this be of use in understanding many different Sciences ?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I was once told quite succinctly that in Aircraft design , Drarfsmen designers often start with drawings defining the many . SOURCE . Leading to :- SINK . Areas of design .

 

In my own area of Electronic design , similar definition points can be specified and circuits often sequentially developed. ( say positive rail flow to ground rail , ....input , process, output , ....etc, etc ) .

 

Could this :- "SOURCE . Leading to :- SINK . ... Principle... ". be of use to other areas of science ? Or is it already established in all areas as an indispensable tool of , " Understanding and Design "

 

Mike

Edited April 14, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

Sounds like a partial (and hugely inaccurate) description of one the laws of thermodynamics.

http://physicsforidiots.com/physics/thermodynamics/

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Sounds like a partial (and hugely inaccurate) description of one the laws of thermodynamics.

http://physicsforidiots.com/physics/thermodynamics/

.

Well if the principle has any merit or worth , it should be quite compatible with many of the laws of physics which involve , movement or change of state from one place to another, with some possible process in between , or from one form to another.

 

This conversation started from a simple discussion with a ' Helicopter Designer ' . I asked " How do you start , to design a Helicopter ?

 

This was over a ' cup of coffee ' , when many interesting discussions often start among Engineers/ Scientists. .

 

I said , " well go on then ! Where do you start? His reply was " With a very Big piece of Paper , we mark out All the ' sources ' and the ' sinks ' they go towards! Then go from there !

 

Hence the question ,

-------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------

 

"Can this be of use in understanding many different Explanations of how things 'are' and 'work ' ?"

 

--------------------------- --------------------------- ---------------

 

Mike

Edited April 14, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

Similarly , In very large Projects . Where an individual , or small group of individuals say managers , were unable to oversee large projects in their heads. A Critical Path analysis , was constructed based on a PERT ( Progress, Evaluation , and Review , Technique ) which could calculate the various routes linking, events and activities , from Beginning to End of a project . A computer program could calculate the possible Critical Path/s though a project so as to monitor and control , otherwise very difficult to 'see ' time sensitive , routes.

 

Again an example of (Source,s to Sink's ) .

 

Is this still a going concern in modern day design and projects , or am I out of date?

 

Mike

Edited April 14, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

As I'm sure you know, we are not going to be generous with this thread. Here is what I want you to do. Very clearly, and in as succinct a manner as possible, detail what is meant by SINK to SOURCE. I want an exact definition. I do not want this by way of more convoluted examples. If you cannot give one, this conversation is pointless.

 

I do not want to see any photos of rivers or of your art work. Use your words and use them well, or expect this to get closed.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

DEFINITION

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Definition of :- source - process - sink . As a system .

 

Source - origination of an entity . Process- manipulation of the entity . Sink- destination of a manipulated entity .

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Simple Explanation of Source to Sink

 

Source , and Sink are in the first instance , possibly best described ' in no doubt,' the way they were first coined. Namely , the SOURCE of our water supply ( in simple terms) , being up in the sky , in the clouds( ignoring for the moment how it got there ) !

 

The SINK , very much being , illustrated by as the word itself infers, a hole in the ground , where water can run away in . In the case of all the water , coming down from the clouds as rain , running off the land , down the rivers , to the Sea ( the ultimate SINK ) . So SOURCE to SINK , being ( in this simple illustration ) Clouds to sea

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Thorough example Source to Process to Sink

 

Putting it into an Engineering/ Electronic context ( one I am more familiar with) . An example of Designing Source to Sink , through some worthwhile active process or function . Then we could think of an Electronic Amplifier ( transistor radio or valve Guitar Power amplifier ) .

 

Here we have ( one of the sources ) being the supply of power from the mains or Battery . This is designed to come in from a positive supply rail on a circuit board .

 

(A) From a control point of view , this is directed down through the circuit to set the components to a 'good ' linear part of the components ( called DC bias ). And is taken to the EARTH rail as the SINK of the circuit .

 

(B) From a Signal point of view ( namely the Radio music signal, or Base Guitar string signal ) this is taken by clever circuitry through either transistors or valves to carefully and with many interesting PROCESSES , to produce the signal that you require . Namely either beautiful symphony music in your earphones , or blood curdling guitar music booming from some large loud speakers at a rock concert .

 

In this case there are two ( source to sink routes)

 

(A ) electrical setting up circuit to operate on their flow from the SOURCE electrical supply Rail , to the SINK namely the ground Rail on your circuit board . namely the DC direct Current aspect and

 

( B ) The processing of the Input signal ( Source ) , your required Signal processing and Amplification (Process) , so as to supply your desired result at the output ( Sink ) . AC alternating Current part of the circuit .

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Normally this is best illustrated in an engineering context by Block Diagrams or Circuit Diagrams . But in a verbal description we have the above journey described as a Journey from SOURCE TO SINK with PROCESSING on the way .

 

Mike

Edited April 15, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Further research , has shown that ' Sourcesink' has been utilised and modelled in biology and the environment , particularly in the 20th century . Models have been introduced in many disciplines , probably , (as would endorse the idea that it has uses in many scientific disciplines. ) . The particular discipline that introduced, by others , the idea to me , was that of ( system design , mechanical engineering , particularly with relation to Helicopters) . I , in turn have illustrated its use in Electronic Design .

 

I am sure if Livingstone could be asked, he would lay claim to ( from Sourcesink) , in his endeavour to find the

.

SOURCE of the River Nile , near Lake Tanganyika to the SINK in the Mediterranean Sea . Or Stanley ( I Presume ) his further link of the Congo river SOURCE. near to Lake Tanganyika over the mountains , going to the SINK in the Atlantic Ocean .

 

All this diverse use of The Sourcesink model, I would say , does illustrate a diverse use and possible future use in undertaking research and development in ' other fields of scientific discovery' where , perhaps the Sourcesink model is not currently utilised?

 

May that be the case ? Or would you say ' No ! " that is the first thing we think about ! " I can only speak of electronics as we are always thinking of flow from ' positive to negative ' and flow from ' input - process- output ' ?

 

If it is not widely used . Well it's another ' tool' , is it not for Research ?

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

All the examples you have given appear to relate to things finding a minimum energy: water flows downhill, electricity flows from a higher potential to a lower, etc. Ultimately, this is a principle that underlies all physical processes.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

All the examples you have given appear to relate to things finding a minimum energy: water flows downhill, electricity flows from a higher potential to a lower, etc. Ultimately, this is a principle that underlies all physical processes.

Well that , as a scientific statement , is Profound in its own right !

 

As you commented in an earlier post ( it is born out in entropy and the laws of thermodynamics dynamics. )

 

Unfortunately , both those laws although accurate , and the basis of much of today's machinery , tend to hide the direction of flow due to the ' counter intuitive ' to the ' sound of the direction of flow and quantity, . Is that not so ? ( more disorder , etc )

 

Also as an over riding principle , perhaps this can be of use in cosmological , and astronomical enterprise?

Mike

Edited April 21, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

A new book out by Brian Clegg called GRAVITY , starts off ( in chap 1 ) reviewing the growth of modern science up through the Greek , Renaissance , and 1800, 1900 thinking , and how they delt with :- * ref

 

LEVITY ... LIGHTNESS ..

 

Falling toward

 

GRAVITY ... HEAVYNESS.

 

Again thinking ( though not in the same words ) of SOURCE to SINK ( Levity to Gravity )

 

* Ref ' Gravity ' by Brian Clegg ISBN 978 0715644072

 

Mike

Edited April 22, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

In Cosmology : From 'Source' to ' Sink ' ? .

 

In cosmology the ultimate Sourse and Sink has surely driven our minds throughout history ?

 

There is both scientist , philosopher , and religious people who one way or another looked to the beginning ' Source' of the universe as associated with some ultimate source of Light Energy . In quantum plasma , issuing out from some central points, as it expands to meet its ultimate ' Sink ', black hole implosion, dark strange attractor , abyss .

 

In the science arena,

 

Gravity seems to play a key role in the journey from the light 'Source' to the heavy 'Sink' , does it not ?

 

Mike

Edited April 23, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

This progression from a higher point to a lower point ( source to sink ) was treasured by , philosophers to scientists to great thinkers , from time immemorial .

 

Aristotle's. firsts thoughts were of some internal DRIVE , prompting things to seek out the centre of things. In his day the idea of the centre of the universe was his goal . Later renascence thinkers , still agonised on ' gravity ' like Copernicus and Galileo ( his major contribution was Experimentation ,Mesurement and Observation ( leading to house arrest for his hypothising ) . Our master scientist of the 1700's , Isaac Newton progressed things in a mathematical way , with Einstein giving us the distortions in ' space time ' ( site ' Gravity' by Brian Clegg .2016. )

 

In the last week or two , I have researched small water disturbances many times , under the influence of wind. This by careful observation, so as to form an explanation for some particular waves on water surfaces.

 

Whether this provides any useful ground work on other wave matters remains to be seen ! But there is a hint of something , reasonably profound !

 

Mike

Edited May 2, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

I personally think ,there will be features to do with Gravity , that will yet enlighten us and surprise us , about Gravity and its operation . But that is just a ' Hunch, suspicion, intuition ' , at the moment .

 

I think , the nature of things ' has more in store ! Maybe it will point a way to inter space travel ?

 

In the last week or two , I have ' cracked , I believe , the explanation of waves on water surfaces ,the particular issue ! ( that I was discussing on " what is science ? " ) . This new explanation " could ! . " just provide an ' Analogue for Gravity waves . I appreciate this would need to be a different thread .

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn't need its own thread. Your previous musing on gravity have already been closed, and you continually fall short of the bar on what we require for speculations.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

?.............

 

In the last week or two , I have researched small water disturbances many times , under the influence of wind. This by careful observation, so as to form an explanation for some particular waves on water surfaces.

Whether this provides any useful ground work on other wave matters remains to be seen ! But there is a hint of something , reasonably profound !

 

The area of water ruffled by the wind , is in fact ONE entity .like one Violin string , or one other vibrating entity.

So the area on the surface only works by dint of the breeze or wind having sufficient energy to start and maintain the " WHOLE " area , patch . Like a whole string or whole ' gong ' . This then presents a threshold , before which the patch will not start a wave pattern off , until sufficient minimum energy is present . Even then it is the lowest possible frequency . When more energy is present , a harmonic of double the frequency is generated in the water .( more in the centre of the patch ) I

 

See the pictures below:-

 

And

 

Here the source is the Energy in the Breeze. The sink is the waves in/on the water surface .

Mike

Edited May 2, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I spoke to a colleague yesterday who has spent his career on inland water areas investigating pollution by factories . He listened to my interest in wind turbulence on canal waters .

 

His comments were that , I should look at " Turbulance flow and Laminar flow and the Reynolds number " .

Having started to look at this area I can see that although this is normally applied to movement of streams , rivers and water in pipes , this could have a bearing on very gentle Turbulance or restrained Laminar flow , in the issue I am looking at on the surface of Canal water . Could this be so ? Could it be that this Reynolds number represents the difference in states between the flat water existing in ' laminar ' mode and the wave water existing in 'turbulent' mode . This then representing this quantum style change that I have previously been describing as necessary to go from ' flat to wave like ' .? Hence the line like edge to the patches of roughness ?

 

Ref :- https://www.princeton.edu/~asmits/Bicycle_web/transition.html

Edited May 11, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

Here is an illustration of moving from " Laminar flow ( parallel surfaces sliding over one another ) to Turblent flow ( things going up and down at 90 degrees or angularly , offset , against the parallel flow ) . *

 

 

 

* whether ' Turblent can be applied to offset / angular movement of a sinusoid variety , under the definition of "turbulent " I am not sure ?

 

The above picture is purely illustrative . It is taken from an image of smoke breaking from laminar to turbulent flow .

 

The water version that I am discussing , has clearly been disturbed from the laminar flow to a more complex state ( a wave ) . Thus , I wonder, if " turbulent " is not just a human definition ? Where a lower energy state ( parallel flow ) goes to the next suitable energy state ( either wave or complete random movement ) namely turbulent .

 

 

See this reference discussing Turbulance and waves

 

Ref :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_turbulence

 

Notice quote from opening paragraph :-

 

" Examples are waves on a fluid surface excited by winds or ships,"

 

Mike

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

So much for following the path that was laid out to you in the modnote