Waves

[blue89]

Feel free to post questions in the physics section. Maybe people with more experience in medical physics can help you more than I can. Still, I will see what I can do.

 

ok.ajb , this is our praying time (friday is faithful day for us) and because of this I have to go to mosque just now, if it is convenient I will prepare and post them there ...

 

thanks for your politeness. (--->> dear ajb I would express something about your personality : I see you trying very quickly to make answer for others.actually I appreciate this direction, and I think this showes that you are more and more energetic in comparison with others , especially according to age. don't miss this , this is very good.) :-)

 

 

regards.

**** * **** preparation before giving physical questions **** * ****

 

ATTENTION PLEASE: THE PROJECT IS INTERDISCIPLINARY AND BECAUSE OF THIS ,IT WILL BE COMPULSORY TO STUDY COLLECTIVE AT LEAST THEESE DISCIPLINE TOGETHER: mathematics-physics-medicine.

 

 

 

I would give theese useful information before, the basis analysis is being about to research one -or several veraible functions , functional sequences and sequences characters. this is deeply take importance whether our sequence is divergent or convergent. furthermore here are more and and more theoris and almost all of this related with theese strong / important terms.(for instance : (bolzano-weierstrass theorie (about properties of finite sequence))

 

 

and because of this , every analysist knows that this is such important that it should not be out of control.

 

 

but the functional analysis is progressive and more difficult than almost all part of analysis (in BSc level) . in the functional analysis especially we research the properties of space according to cauchy sequences . for instance it is very important if our cauchy sequence's limit is element of our group we study in.

 

 

to not to make theese instructions wider , I am summarising. and another important subject is being important that in which space your sequence is being researched. for example it will be important and also different whether your cauchy sequences belong element of metric space,normic space ,inner product space, integrate space, Lp or Lq space, etc..

 

topology ; the topology is another space at real ... ,because if our field ensures some special requirements it will be called topologic space.

 

 

 

**** physical questions ***

 

according to my information I had learnt before I enrolled BSc programme of mathematics , some information given about waves/undulations (note: we will write only wave instead undulation in defining this term)

 

my questions are below , will be important to create the exact sequence of waves or .using them.

 

**** questions ****

 

1) ARE WE ABLE TO SHOW THE SHAPES OF THEESE WAVES LİKE WAVES WHİCHES ARE ABLE TO BE SHOWN ON WATERS.

 

 

**** MAGNETIC & ELEKTROMAGNETİC WAVES

**** VOİCE WAVES

**** LIGHTENING WAVES (ESPECIALLY RADIOACTİVE WAVES)

 

 

NOTE: I had spoken with professor.deniz.değer.ulutaş in istanbul university/physics department ,and when I asked this question to her.

 

she explained that WE ARE NOT ABLE TO SHOW THEESE WAVES SHAPES. she said we can only see/observe their effects. but we can not show them like waves on the water.we are not able to picture them.

 

 

is not there availabl paradox (???) : first of all I would remind that I am not physicisit. I am expert of basis analysis and now I am MSc student in functional analysis. (I give this information that I may not have enough information in this subject. I am not pyhscist , I am mathematician!)

 

according to professor.dr deniz değer ulutaş' s expression , I would ask ;

 

"how we are being able to use our mobile phones unless we are not able to show/picture theese waves (there spoken waves, are probably :elektromagnetic or magnetic waves or like this, but the importance is being not able to see them with our nayurel eyes too. (...whereas we can see waves whiches are on water. theese waves observed and their properties calculated at physic laboratory.there are available relevant a lot of theorie. )

 

 

2) in this question , I would request you to give me the differences between elektro-magnetic waves and the waves on water , for example : all properties that we are able to calculate are same ?? or are there some accurate differences , especielly how they behave in their region. and other specializations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EXPLANATION: the first question is very very important. for example it will be useful if we are able to picture clearly like waves on water with using some modern device , it will make us possible one another technique in project.

 

 

 

THE TECHNIQUE OR THIS PART IS NOT PART OF THE PROJECT. AND WILL NOT BE EXPLAINED TO PROTECT THE PROJECT. I WILL BE THANKFULL FOR YOUR JUDICIAL CONCEPTION.

 

 

addition : I can not use ,the LaTeX programme now. and I apologise if it is the rule of this forum.(I also do not write some formulisations for this reason)

 

REGARDS .

 

blue.

I am a bit confused with what you have actually sent to the university. Have you sent a proposal for some project or essentially a completed peiece of work?

 

 

dear ajb ;

 

 

THIS IS TRIAL AND INTERDISCIPLINARY PROJECT. the poject's part which is relevant to mathematics (and it is true that it had been created by me) is absolutely completed , but I would you to take attention that it is interdisciplinary research project. I am not able to complete other interdiscplines.(theese are: physics and medicine)

 

 

blue.

Edited May 6, 2016 by blue89

[swansont]

We can't see electromagnetic waves themselves. Light is an electromagnetic wave — the way we see things is when the light gets to us and our body interprets the effect is has on our eyes. We can also (with much lower resolution) detect EM waves when it gets absorbed by our skin (it feels hot). Similarly with sound. We can see how it affects some material — we can make sound cause a vibration of a material. But in those cases we're not seeing the wave itself. You might be able to see the wave behavior if the medium was a visible gas, or perhaps smoke.

 

But this is how physics works with a lot of things — we measure effects and behavior. We can't see a force, or momentum, or energy. But we can measure the effects they have, and see if we understand these concepts. The concept of a wave is another model that we test.

[blue89]

We can't see electromagnetic waves themselves. Light is an electromagnetic wave — the way we see things is when the light gets to us and our body interprets the effect is has on our eyes. We can also (with much lower resolution) detect EM waves when it gets absorbed by our skin (it feels hot). Similarly with sound. We can see how it affects some material — we can make sound cause a vibration of a material. But in those cases we're not seeing the wave itself. You might be able to see the wave behavior if the medium was a visible gas, or perhaps smoke.

 

But this is how physics works with a lot of things — we measure effects and behavior. We can't see a force, or momentum, or energy. But we can measure the effects they have, and see if we understand these concepts. The concept of a wave is another model that we test.

 

note : this message has been reformed!..

 

in this case ,I would ask you ;

 

unless we can see (or show with any device) them , how the communication (with mobile phone) is being happened?? or how it had been explored, or how the system is being constructed and controlled??

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

 

unless we can not see (or show with any device) them , how the communication (with mobile phone) is being happened?? or how it had been explored, or how the system is being constructed and controlled??

 

 

What does this have to do with functional analysis?

 

Note.

 

1) Of course you can see the phone signal waves with a device - it is called a phone.

 

2) The phone signals are pulses not waves.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Most waves are caused by 'something ' , going up and down , or in and out , fast . ( mechanically, electrically etc )!

 

If you do the same with a rope that is being held at a far end by a rock or a person . If you then take the loose end of the rope , and move it ,up and down , fast . You will see a wave travel down or along the rope. That is a wave . You can see it .

 

Sound waves are similar, radio waves are similar , mechanical vibrations are often waves. ( these three types of waves are there , but you can not usually see them ( you can hear one sort ' sound ' and feel ' mechanical ' . You will need some electronics to see the radio waves . We usually use something called an ' oscilloscope ' . Most electronic laboratories have an ' oscilloscope ' . This covers your problem of " how do we see them ( waves ) ? " Electronics people ( engineers ) usually have access to an oscilloscope , this enables Engineers to ' See ' how the waves look and perform .

 

Here is a picture of one .

 

And a link to a web site :- http://wonders.physics.wisc.edu/oscilloscope.htm

 

Mike

Edited May 6, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

in this case ,I would ask you ;

 

unless we can not see (or show with any device) them , how the communication (with mobile phone) is being happened?? or how it had been explored, or how the system is being constructed and controlled??

 

 

We can modulate waves so that they carry an encoded signal. Of course the system has been studied. This was well known before mobile phones were developed. The concept of sending information on EM waves of these frequencies dates back 100 years. Radio.

[blue89]

 

What does this have to do with functional analysis?

 

Note.

 

1) Of course you can see the phone signal waves with a device - it is called a phone.

 

2) The phone signals are pulses not waves.

 

 

DEAR SCIENTISTS ;

 

 

before beginning I would be pleased you check messages repeatedly , all of scientist have understood correctly ,but my first comment replying to dear swansont ,was incorrect because of one exxtra word.

 

ok. it is one of the most important Question written in bold (Above at dear : studiot's comment) about this project .

 

well , as I said ,I am not physicist , I am mathematician , ...

 

 

the first queation above I have been asked was to make clarity just about this. I will say that this is importan for any mathematician , but you will understand easily I think.

 

 

" if we are able to show/picture the waves (especially the elektromagnetic/nuclear ...etc whiches are can not been observed by our eyes like waves on water)

 

 

we would be able to write them with their function ,for example if we mark T1 (and picture/show) the first one of our wave (!!: but we should have ability to do this , this required & compulsory) this would make us a new clue I think ...yes it should be true.

 

for example, if our T1 numbered wave's function is can be written with this equation X² +Y² = 16

 

this would prove us (at firs time we would be confident (already) if we are able to write with this functional equation!! this is more clear!,(furthermore this shows us that mathematics is respective ,it makes us being confident for certitude, if we are not able to show them with their function , how will we picture them or how will we be able to observe (see with device) them !?? , being able to write them with their mathematical function is important !!)

 

 

 

and in this way , this would bring us new clues to use mathematical principles/theories , not clue, exactly this will ensure us to use it properly.

 

how will we use it, or

 

what kind information will this bring us ?

 

REMEMBER PLEASE AT FIRST I HAVE WRITTEN THAT , THE DEPARTMENT OF MATH-ANALYSIS MAINLY REEARCHES THE

 

**** sequences and their properties (especially such as being convergent or divergent)

**** functions properties

****series

**** and their limits above given above, and other properties as a summary.

 

 

 

Let ,see it will be very very easy to express the waves by this , we will express with mathematical equationeasily.

 

let rewrite teh equation --->> x²+y² = r² ----> because of the parameter of "r" , we have the SEQUENCE (OR SERIES) of waves now!!

 

 

 

and continue, what will be done ??

 

 

it is well known that there are available many many theories/principles in mathematics!!..

 

 

just in this project ,I would try to use one of them!..

 

 

(dear scientists: I see there exist engineers ,physchists and other scientists. intimately I would be pleased if you express your opinions about about my project)

 

 

******

******

 

 

 

blue.

Here is a picture of one .

 

image.jpeg

And a link to a web site :- http://wonders.physics.wisc.edu/oscilloscope.htm

 

Mike

 

 

it will be very important whether we are able to show/picture them as functional.

 

for instance the picture given is similar to be expressed with this function (approximately)

 

y=sin(x)

 

an also there are functional sequences in analysis especially in functional analysis

 

we are able to express with functional sequence like this

 

Fn(x) = n.sin(x) .

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[Klaynos]

We have wave equations we can apply to em waves.

 

In your equation you have shown no derivation not explained what X nor Y are.

We have wave equations we can apply to em waves.

 

In your equation you have shown no derivation not explained what X nor Y are.

[blue89]

We have wave equations we can apply to em waves.

 

In your equation you have shown no derivation not explained what X nor Y are.

We have wave equations we can apply to em waves.

 

In your equation you have shown no derivation not explained what X nor Y are.

 

 

oh ,forgive I have forgotten that here is physics forum.(this was easy I thougt but..forgive if it is not comprehensive)

 

ok.

 

this equation is existing above , is expressing waves in cartesian equation.(!!: not important, they can be shown both in polar coordinates and spherical coordinates ,too)

 

!! : but as I said , we should be confident to see their clear shape to write this.

 

look at image of dear Mike's shared please, my approximate written equation above is the second one ,to be able to understand clearly.

 

and for the first one ,you will assume that our waves are shaped on X-Y cartesian plane ,and they can be shown sequently because of our parameter "r", r defines radius to origin.

 

example :

 

x² +y²=r²

 

 

our T1 wave's radius r1=2 T1 will be shown x²+ y² = 4

 

 

r2= 3 T2= x²+y²=9

 

...

...

...

 

rn= n Tn = x²+y²= n²

 

^..

 

^{r=radius' show the distances between each waves and origin (source)}

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

I still don't see an answer to my question.

 

Functional analysis is the mathematical study of mathematical spaces and the maps between spaces.

 

As such Fourier analysis is included. Fourier analysis is the mathematics of periodic (wave ) functions.

 

When the fourier sequence is finite the map is form the space of continuous, continuously differentiable functions to itself.

 

When the fourier sequence is infinite the map is from the space of continuous etc functions to a space including discontinuous functions eg square wave or pulse that I mentioned before.

 

I'm sure there is a language difficulty so you sould include more mathematics in your questions.

Those responding will have no trouble with this.

[blue89]

I still don't see an answer to my question.

 

Functional analysis is the mathematical study of mathematical spaces and the maps between spaces.

 

As such Fourier analysis is included. Fourier analysis is the mathematics of periodic (wave ) functions.

 

When the fourier sequence is finite the map is form the space of continuous, continuously differentiable functions to itself.

 

When the fourier sequence is infinite the map is from the space of continuous etc functions to a space including discontinuous functions eg square wave or pulse that I mentioned before.

 

I'm sure there is a language difficulty so you sould include more mathematics in your questions.

Those responding will have no trouble with this.

 

I apologise;

 

but this question can not be answered to protect the project!..

now ,there we discuss only partial of the project.

 

and at the same time ; I propose you looking this literature for another questions about functional analysis (if you have) : KREYSZIG : erwin kreyszig.

[studiot]

I have the 1989 edition of 'Introductory Functional Analysis with Applications' by Kreysig.

 

You may find the treatment of waves from a functional analysis point of view by

 

'Applied Functional Analysis' by Griffel

 

of more interest.

Edited May 7, 2016 by studiot

[blue89]

.I'm sure there is a language difficulty so you sould include more mathematics in your questions.

Those responding will have no trouble with this.

 

help me please ; (I would clarify you if your questions are decipherable)

 

what kind difficulty did you mean ?? (such a grammar mistake , lack of terminology or equation)

 

but all questions can be answered if they are decipherable as I said.

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

 

how kind difficulty did you mean ?? (such a grammar mistake , lack of terminology or equation)

 

All of these.

 

Keep asking questions it will help your English.

 

For instance I understand your question above, but it was not good English

 

What sort of difficulty do you mean?

What kind of difficulty do you mean?

 

Is good English.

 

Sorry for my spelling mistakes in my posts above I hope you notices I often write form instead of from.

 

[blue89]

 

All of these.

 

Keep asking questions it will help your English.

 

For instance I understand your question above, but it was not good English

 

What sort of difficulty do you mean?

What kind of difficulty do you mean?

 

Is good English.

 

Sorry for my spelling mistakes in my posts above I hope you notices I often write form instead of from.

 

 

 

actually this hurts me if you are quite series.

 

I will enroll to to TOEFL (by ETS) examination , now I can not say anything clearly about language.(because it will be the first time to be atended this exam)

 

but , I gsuggest you according to my initial interpretation , I already try reforming them that I realise quickly.

 

 

look and check please I had already reformed this incorrectness before you wrote this post. you can check it by looking posting time

 

 

my post sent (editing time): 12.54

 

your post sent : 12.58

 

this shows you that I had already realised and reformed this mistake.

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

Don't rely on the timestamps here, they are often inaccurate.

 

 

this shows you that I had already realised and reformed this mistake.

 

 

It was not a mistake just language difficulties, don't worry about it, no one will complain as you are obviously doing your best to communicate.

 

I did say keep doing this as it will help and an English course will also help if you have time for one.

 

Cheer up and concentrate on trying to put over what you want to say about mathematics.

 

[blue89]

 

 

 

Sorry for my spelling mistakes in my posts above I hope you notices I often write form instead of from.

 

 

I see , writing incorectly is possible for everybody. although (I suppose )you are native english

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

I see , writing incorectly is possible for everybody. although (I suppose )you are native english

.

 

I like the word ' Native ' , applied to ' Studio' , it's got a nice ,ring to how I think of him ! Humm . Native ! Humm! .

What , with a spear ,you mean ? or running around with few clothes on ? Either way . It's good !

 

Mike

Edited May 7, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[blue89]

 

It was not a mistake just language difficulties, don't worry about it, no one will complain as you are obviously doing your best to communicate.

 

I did say keep doing this as it will help and an English course will also help if you have time for one.

 

Cheer up and concentrate on trying to put over what you want to say about mathematics.

 

 

probably you are all right. I am going to post my some comments one by one to yours, relevant to above(some of them will be important)

 

at first I would thank to you for the first one,

as I said,I did not make asessment my language skill by any examination. but I have high confidence that I am able to learn almost everthing by my own, there is needed only one necessity, and it is written material relevant to the information that would be learnt . (there is possible availability of mistake in this long sentence )

 

thanks again for the last one. I would try it.

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

 

I like the word ' Native ' , applied to ' Studio' , it's got a nice ,ring to how I think of him ! Humm . Native ! Humm! .

What , with a spear ,you mean ? or running around with few clothes on ? Either way . It's good !

 

 

 

If you are jealous of my tailor or my barber I will supply their details for a small large fee.

 

[blue89]

 

If you are jealous of my tailor or my barber I will supply their details for a small large fee.

 

 

oh , I did not understand your this conversation with mike ,but I think studiot is friendly , studiot could you look your inbox ,I have sent to you something (request).

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[studiot]

OK

 

Most waves are periodic phenomenon and require a medium in which to propagate.

Waves can be combined.

 

Telecommunications waves are actually combinations of two sorts of wave.

 

The signal wave and the carrier wave.

 

We really only want the signal waves and mathematically we can regard the microwave carrier waves as only there to create a medium for the wanted signal to propagate in.

 

Signal waves are generally not periodic and often not even continuous in time.

Continuous signals are called analog.

Discontinuous signals are called digital.

 

The simplest signal wave was the old Morse code, first on the telegraph wires and then by radio.

This was a simple series of on and off pulses.

 

So the first signals were digital.

 

Then came the analog voice signals by telephoen and radio

 

Today we are back to digital signals with mobile phones.

 

Does this help?

[blue89]

OK

 

Most waves are periodic phenomenon and require a medium in which to propagate.

Waves can be combined.

 

Telecommunications waves are actually combinations of two sorts of wave.

 

The signal wave and the carrier wave.

 

We really only want the signal waves and mathematically we can regard the microwave carrier waves as only there to create a medium for the wanted signal to propagate in.

 

Signal waves are generally not periodic and often not even continuous in time.

Continuous signals are called analog.

Discontinuous signals are called digital.

 

The simplest signal wave was the old Morse code, first on the telegraph wires and then by radio.

This was a simple series of on and off pulses.

 

So the first signals were digital.

 

Then came the analog voice signals by telephoen and radio

 

Today we are back to digital signals with mobile phones.

 

Does this help?

 

sure!..

 

but probbaly ,I need to share some special parts of the project more, to be accurately clarified

 

thanks studiot.

 

thanks to others ,too.

 

regards

 

blue.

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89

[swansont]

The wave equation is a second-order differential in time, and the solution is going to be a sinusoid. x^2 + y^2 = r^2 is the equation of a circle. There is no time dependence.

[blue89]

The wave equation is a second-order differential in time, and the solution is going to be a sinusoid. x^2 + y^2 = r^2 is the equation of a circle. There is no time dependence.

 

hi;

 

if you take care sensitively , you will see this equation of circle is changeable.

 

our radius is not static ,it changes depend on time at real. look please to my post which has been given 11.03 A.M today. you will be able to see convenient explanation for this statement in example.

Edited May 7, 2016 by blue89