Can ionized atoms freeze?

[korfezli]

I need the answer for this issue because i cannot find it on internet, if this is possible or not. Or the difference between a neutral atom and one that is ionized, about the heating and freezing.

 

The importance is when it should not or there is a difference, then we could ionize oxygen atoms and prevent them from freezing, that would be nice for splitting molecules.

 

When they should freeze, you would say that + and - frozen atoms will attract themselves like a magnet...

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[John Cuthber]

The usual model of a metal is a set of ions surrounded by a sea of electrons.

[korfezli]

we can use water and then steam with 2 hydrogen and 1 atoms oxygen as example.

 

 

Addittion: let's take water, heat it. I assume steam or vapour can be ionized because it has oxygen atoms. Let's approve. Then try to freeze the molecules very quickly. Oxygen and hydrogen will not freeze at the same time I think, they have diffferent Fahrenheit of freezing points.

What will happen then? Will the not frozen atom wait for the other one, or will they split? And what if we ionize the oxygen then, after one freezes?

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[Sensei]

Typical ionized atoms, are in plasma state of matter.

 

Freezing, crystallize matter in liquid state of matter.

Atoms and electrons in plasma state move very fast (relative each other). After freezing, very slow (relative each other).

 

But we are in chemistry section of forum, not physics (where such question belongs), so no sure what do you meant by "ionized atoms".

Salt dissolved in solvent such as water, will be ions, with negative participant and positive participant (positive ion). They can freeze together with solvent.

 

Take for example NaCl,

NaCl after dissolving in water,

we have Na+ na Cl- ions.

These ions are surrounded by water molecules.

But water molecule is polar. One side of molecule has different charge than other side. H⁺ H⁺ O^2-

 

Sodium + ion attracts water molecule differently,

than Chlorine- ion.

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Sensei

[studiot]

Good analysis sensei +1

[korfezli]

Sorry about my weird language I quess. My english is not very good. They are just ions. The title would be Can ions freeze?

[Sensei]

Addittion: let's take water, heat it. I assume steam or vapour can be ionized because it has oxygen atoms. Let's approve. Then try to freeze the molecules very quickly. Oxygen and hydrogen will not freeze at the same time I think, they have diffferent Fahrenheit of freezing points.

What will happen then? Will the not frozen atom wait for the other one, or will they split? And what if we ionize the oxygen then, after one freezes?

 

If you have water molecule in gaseous state,

after heating it significantly,

you will turn it to gaseous hydrogen and gaseous oxygen,

after heating it even more,

you will turn them to hydrogen plasma and oxygen plasma state.

 

 

Similar situation happens when firefighers try to fight with fire in some compounds burning. They release water molecule. Water molecule has enough energy to change to gaseous Hydrogen, and gaseous Oxygen. And because of heat source, explode together. That's pretty dangerous to firefighters.

 

Trying to extinguish Magnesium with water:

Sorry about my weird language I quess. My english is not very good. They are just ions. The title would be Can ions freeze?

 

But ions in vacuum?

Or ions dissolved in solvent medium?

[korfezli]

"you will turn it to gaseous hydrogen and gaseous oxygen"

 

After this state, the question is then, when you freeze the molecule very quickly, will both kinds of atoms freeze together, or will one freeze first and then wait for the other to freeze. And what about ionization, will a ion freeze? And when one of the atom is frozen, what if you ionize then, will it split or freeze or not?

 

I really have no idea about vacuum and solvent medium, i know the translations what you mean, but I think it is not relevant for my question. I am not sure.

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[studiot]

Just how would you freeze the ion and why would it not regain its neutrality by this process?

 

Of course Sensei's question is relevent.

It is all too often forgotten that most ions on our planet are in solution, not wandering around freely since as soon as they hit something they tend to loose their charge.

Edited May 7, 2016 by studiot

[korfezli]

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-frozen-hydrogen.htm#didyouknowout

 

Like this method maybe, with sth that freezes quickly.

 

or sth like a very cold ice machine or refrigrator.

 

The issue is that two different types of atoms freeze in a very short period. And that one of the atoms must freeze later than the other, what happens then?

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[studiot]

You clearly misunderstood.

 

I asked how to freeze an ion (or ions) without neutralising their charge.

 

So the result is truly frozen ions, neutral atoms or molecules that were once ions.

 

And your link offers me a block of frozen neutral hydrogen.

[Sensei]

There is significant difference between hot surface, and cold surface, depending on temperature there are emitted photons with higher or lower energy at peak (depending on temperature). See blackbody emission spectrum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation

Edited May 7, 2016 by Sensei

[korfezli]

"But water molecule is polar. One side of molecule has different charge than other side. H+ H+ O2-"

 

the molecule is polar, maybe water is not a very good example then .

 

 

 

would ionizing the atom while it freezes block the freezing process? I think ionizing it with a + pole would.

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[studiot]

 

would ionizing the atom while it freezes block the freezing process?

 

 

Once again, how would you do that?

 

You also need to be clear in your own mind what you mean by freezing.

 

The freezing point of sodium chloride is very different from the freezing point of water.

 

If you have sodium ions and chloride ions dissolved in water and freeze the block as Sensei suggested then do you have frozen ions?

 

Or do you have ions trapped in a frozen block of water?

[Sensei]

Oxygen wants to be at 2- state (which means the all magnetic force is canceled out, the all electrons are paired with each other). Because it's electron configuration is 1s2 2s2 2p6

In such state it has charge Q=-2e

The other states are:

1s2 2s2 with Q=+4e

or

1s2 with Q=+6e

(much more unreliable)

Edited May 7, 2016 by Sensei

[korfezli]

"The freezing point of sodium chloride is very different from the freezing point of water"

 

This is exactly what I mention. the freezing point is different and when you freeze h20 in gas state then I think oxygen and hydrogen will not freeze at the same time.

 

Now my question is can they freeze, i think yes, Sensei has answered that one I think. Because h2o is polar and it can freeze. But when you freeze two atoms of different kind will they freeze at the same time. And will ionization of the oxygen atom with + polarity block the freezing process?

 

Or am I now confused because of water> because freezing water = frozen atoms?

Edited May 7, 2016 by korfezli

[studiot]

This exactly what i mean. the freezing point is different and when you freeze h20 in gas state then I think oxygen and hydrogen will not freeze at the same time

 

 

Sure they will.

 

You can contact freeze water vapour to ice or carry out the reverse process sublime ice directly to vapour.

 

But there are no ions involved.

 

Water is a poor example because it does not readily form ions.

There are a few, but the concetration is very very low and oxygen forms negative, not positive ions.

 

I'm sure you have a purpose behing the question so why not just explain what you are trying to do?

 

I am going to bed now but Sensei knows a great deal more physics and chemistry than you and will help I'm sure when we know exactly where you are trying to get to.

[Fuzzwood]

Individual atoms don't freeze. Nor do ions. Ions of the same charge will not condense and freeze as they will repel each other. Ions of of opposite charge will simply transfer electrons until they are neutral or form a molecule when they condense.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Fuzzwood

[korfezli]

I think I have a better method for splitting atoms, by heating then freezing them, and ionizing the oxygen atom in opposite pole to slow down the freezing process of a single atom. that is why it is important for me to know if both atoms freeze at the same time, when we speak about a molecule.

 

I will sleep now too, till tomorrow.

[Sensei]

The couple of atoms (molecule), won't freeze the same as they are alone.

 

Take for example Fluorine.

It freeze at −219.67 °C,

But if it's part of KrF2

Krypton difluoride

It's completely different temperature melting point..

 

You would spend less time making Krypton difluoride by yourself, than searching net for reliable melting point..

 

It is all too often forgotten that most ions on our planet are in solution, not wandering around freely since as soon as they hit something they tend to loose their charge.

 

Charge is conserved, atoms or molecules can be neutralized by opposite charge ions, joining with them.

Charged particle is still there, but so close to each other, their charge is for outside observer, is meaningless.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Sensei

[korfezli]

The couple of atoms (molecule), won't freeze the same as they are alone.

 

Take for example Fluorine.

It freeze at −219.67 °C,

But if it's part of KrF2

Krypton difluoride

It's completely different temperature melting point..

 

You would spend less time making Krypton difluoride by yourself, than searching net for reliable melting point..

So in your opinion, when water freezes at 0 degree, oxygen and hydrogen atoms have reached their frozen state?

 

What if at different degree for example 10 degrees oxygen already gets frozen and the hydrogen has to freeze, or when you try to block the freezing process by activating the oxygen atom by ionizing.

if at different degree for example 10 degrees oxygen already gets frozen and the hydrogen has to freeze, or when you try to block the freezing process by activating the oxygen atom by ionizing.

[John Cuthber]

The title would be Can ions freeze?

The simple answer is not on their own.

 

If you have a bunch of +ve ions they will repel eachother. You won't be able to get them close enough together to pack into a solid.

 

You can pack them into a lattice with other ions

For example, salt is made of +ve sodium ions and -ve chloride ions.

[korfezli]

The simple answer is not on their own.

 

If you have a bunch of +ve ions they will repel eachother. You won't be able to get them close enough together to pack into a solid.

 

You can pack them into a lattice with other ions

For example, salt is made of +ve sodium ions and -ve chloride ions.

 

And when they are already fused, in molecular state like h2o in gas state, do they freeze together, or one by one. Then the question arises what if I ionize the oxygen atom to prevent it from freezing, because activating the atom, will activate the protons too I think, because of the balance of the atom.

[John Cuthber]

 

And when they are already fused, in molecular state like h2o in gas state, do they freeze together, or one by one. Then the question arises what if I ionize the oxygen atom to prevent it from freezing, because activating the atom, will activate the protons too I think, because of the balance of the atom.

" do they freeze together, or one by one."

Together

" Then the question arises what if I ionize the oxygen atom to prevent it from freezing,"

Sodium oxide is a solid - it is frozen- but it contains oxide ions.

The question is how would you "ionize the oxygen atom "?

 

It's not possible.

[korfezli]

in gas state oxygen atoms can be ionized with a ionisator