Let's domesticate cheetahs--Duct tape muzzle discussion

[Dak]

fair point

 

my anger was more at the fact that someone that ignorant of a dogs feelings/nessesity to breath was allowed to keep a dog in the first place, rather than at his stupidity itself, which after all isnt his fault.

 

people can be that stupid, and theres nothing we can do to stop that. but we can stop them owning dogs (if only we could stop them having childeren too)

[Auk]

Agreed. Let's replace dogs, who have owners that seem to lack common sense, with cheetas.

[Coral Rhedd]

Child Abusers don't get off easy.

 

All too often, they do.

[Aardvark]

Aside from that AzurePheoniz those quoted lines show that you are overreacting the situation. Please no name calling and show a little respect.

 

People who suffocate dogs with duct tape don't deserve respect. It doesn't seem like AzurePhoeniz is overreacting to me.

[AzurePhoenix]

Damn Skippy, I ain't.

[Callipygous]

hmmmm. as much as i despise religion, i think it might be good for some people.

 

almost every religion involves some form of forgiveness/repent.

 

i totally understand wanting to keep this guy away from other animals, but i would call the public lashing i have seen in this thread an overreaction.

[Aardvark]

hmmmm. as much as i despise religion' date=' i think it might be good for some people.

 

almost every religion involves some form of forgiveness/repent.

 

i totally understanding wanting to keep this guy away from other animals, but i would call the public lashing i have seen in this thread an overreaction.[/quote']

 

If Christ Slave were to have expressed repentance or sorrow then that would be different. All that he has expressed in his posts has been to shift the blame and evade responsibility. He's almost blaming the dog itself.

 

If suffocating a dog isn't enough to arouse a serious public response then it really would be a sad day.

[Christ slave]

If Christ Slave were to have expressed repentance or sorrow then that would be different. All that he has expressed in his posts has been to shift the blame and evade responsibility. He's almost blaming the dog itself.

 

If suffocating a dog isn't enough to arouse a serious public response then it really would be a sad day.

 

No, you're just setting yourself up for trouble by judging and condemning someone for an accident. What will happen when you have an accident and someone jumps on you about it, and it being an accident such as a death, what will you do? You will have nothing more to do than sit back and have people judge your, your character, ridicule you, call you stupid, and tell you how much you deserve to die--not to mention the overuse of your lies and assumptions.

 

I never said he was sophocated, for the record, I did not put duct-tape over his nostrils. Duct-taping a dogs mouth shut is hardly a blatant attempt at sophocation. For all I know, he coughed during the night and it blew some blood-vessels out. At either rate, yes, it was cruel I suppose for having used duct-tape because it MIGHT hurt him by ripping hair off his body, but other than that muzzles are not either illegal, nor considered cruel-and-unusual.

 

I also find it extremely stupid how people are pretending like the dog is a person. Dogs and people are treated differently, and you need to reevaluate your own inner madness by saning up a bit. We don't put children on leashes, we don't smack children in their nose when they do bad things, we don't shove a child's face in their diapers after they messup, we don't put children outside for hours at a time to eat and drink from a bowl on the ground, we don't put children in dog houses, we don't put collars OR muzzles on children (and regardless how guilty you want to make me feel, I'm never going to givein to your lie that I was stupid for attempting to muzzle a dog), we don't breed children in fences and sell their children, we don't use children to sniff out trees nor make them go and poop and pee in the yard, we don't make children go around naked, we don't allow children to go weeks, months, or even years with a bath, we don't pin children's ears up or snip parts of their bodies, we don't send a child to hunt, we don't force a child to remain down on the ground all day and not allowed to get up on the couch, we give children much more attention and care, and there are many more differences.

 

And, for the record, people must learn responsibility sometime. Accidents happen, but unfortunately some mistakes cannot be undone--and this why reincarnation, karma, and money exist, so that people can pay for their mistakes...and it's also why forgiveness exists, because being that all people must learn, it's impossible to assume people can come into the world and never make a mistake. I'd like to see how you'd respond to people treating you so terribly and undeserving for making a mistake. And like that one person had posted, it is not so easy to get a dog to stop barking--especially when they're so old. And, as it was, I attempted to discipline and teach him to stop, but my methodology was apparently wrong. I don't even know if it was the duct-tape that killed him, he was an old dog and he had a terrible cough caused by a tumor in his throat. Perhaps he simply died of natural causes, but the duct-tape and the death would be a pretty big coincidence, so I just assume that he did not sophocate, but perhaps he had such a terrible cough that it blew out some blood vessels or something because it couldn't exit his nose quick enough. At any rate, like I said, I had muzzled him with duct-tape before (maybe 5 other times previous to the last) and he didn't die, so don't talk to me like it was so absolutely stupid. He did survive, and as such, him dying once does not all of a sudden constitute all success as stupid,

 

It's called trial and error. You live and you learn. If you want to have wild, undomesticated dogs who don't listen to or obey you, then go ahead. I for one am not an idiot and do know that society demands a methodology and a system to dealing with things. Yes, duct-tape may have been unnecessary, and I could have simply let him bark for the rest of his life...or, I could have stood up and took some action. I even tried other methods before using duct-tape, and as he was unresponsive, my frustration and the discipline grew. He lived here for 9 years about (maybe less), and as such it was certainly not uncommon for him to be disciplined and have to listen to his master. A dog that old should certainly know when to listen to its owner, and it is certainly true that he was disciplined before in regard to his barking, but then all of a sudden he wanted to be rebellious and bark all night (and this instance went on for more than just that one night, until I finally decided it was enough and so I muzzled him)...or, perhaps something was wrong. I do not know for certain why he wouldn't stop barking, but he had been barking during the middle of the night for some time before I finally muzzled him.

 

Needlesstosay again, he died. Did I cause it by the duct-tape? I don't know. Even if I did, it wasn't so careless. A dog has to learn sometime, if he had lived for 5 more years, it would be terribly unnecessary to permit him to bark all night and bark whenever he wanted. There is a thing called obedience, and that's why he was a pet. I do wonder if I put the muzzle on too-tight, however, but like I have typed, it is a pet's duty to obey its master. The behavior had gotten out of control. I'm not going to pretend I'm the dog's slave now and pretend like I had done everything wrong and he was a sweet little innocent angel enduring some hellish wrath undeservingly...why? Because he certainly played a large part in leading up to the event, which may have been a mistake, and it's not uncommon for a dog to either be muzzled or disciplined for its behavior. I could have been irresponsible and allowed him to get away with barking for the rest of the his life...my mom lives here as well, was I supposed to allow her, a hard working single-mother, have to put up with a dog barking in the night when she has to sleep just because I allowed the dog to get out of control?

[Christ slave]

i totally understand wanting to keep this guy away from other animals,

For muzzling an animal? I think you're wrong if that's your reasoning...and, yes, duct-tape may have been a bit distasteful, but it certainly doesn't constitute animal cruelty or keeping someone away from animals. It was a means of getting a muzzle that he wouldn't scrape off with his paw (although he had done it before). So, I had to put it on a little heftier this time, but it was hardly blatant stupidity, as I never covered his nostrils and left him that way to sophocate.

but i would call the public lashing i have seen in this thread an overreaction.

They'll learn eventually.

[swansont]

I also find it extremely stupid how people are pretending like the dog is a person. Dogs and people are treated differently, and you need to reevaluate your own inner madness by saning up a bit. We don't put children on leashes, we don't smack children in their nose when they do bad things, we don't shove a child's face in their diapers after they messup, we don't put children outside for hours at a time to eat and drink from a bowl on the ground, we don't put children in dog houses, we don't put collars OR muzzles on children (and regardless how guilty you want to make me feel, I'm never going to givein to your lie that I was stupid for attempting to muzzle a dog), we don't breed children in fences and sell their children, we don't use children to sniff out trees nor make them go and poop and pee in the yard, we don't make children go around naked, we don't allow children to go weeks, months, or even years with a bath, we don't pin children's ears up or snip parts of their bodies, we don't send a child to hunt, we don't force a child to remain down on the ground all day and not allowed to get up on the couch, we give children much more attention and care, and there are many more differences.

 

You really need to get out and see more of the world. Many of these things that "we" do not do are, or have been, done to children.

 

Children aren't hit? (we don't smack children in their nose when they do bad things)

 

Slavery didn't exist? (we don't breed children in fences and sell their children)

 

poverty doesn't exist? (we don't make children go around naked)

 

children aren't circumcised (among other practices) - both male and female? (we don't pin children's ears up or snip parts of their bodies)

 

Children aren't excluded from the "good" furniture or room in households? (we don't force a child to remain down on the ground all day and not allowed to get up on the couch)

[Christ slave]

You really need to get out and see more of the world. Many of these things that "we" do not do are' date=' or have been, done to children.

 

Children aren't hit? (we don't smack children in their nose when they do bad things)

 

Slavery didn't exist? (we don't breed children in fences and sell their children)

 

poverty doesn't exist? (we don't make children go around naked)

 

children aren't circumcised (among other practices) - both male and female? (we don't pin children's ears up or snip parts of their bodies)

 

Children aren't excluded from the "good" furniture or room in households? (we don't force a child to remain down on the ground all day and not allowed to get up on the couch)[/quote']

 

It is obvious flaws exist. My point was that one cannot argue the state and circumstances of being an animal in comparison to a child. You reinstituting the fact that there are flaws do not refute my point, and they only reinstate it.

 

The fact is, there was one or more persons describing my treatment of a dog as if I am supposed to treat the dog like he goes to school, was born from a woman, uses the toilet, and all sorts of other things (comparing the treatment of a child to a dog, using this as an excuse to make me look bad). The fact is, it is morally acceptable to treat a dog like a dog and less like a person. Just because you can name instances where the system falls apart doesn't change the higher moralle.

[Callipygous]

wow... you really are just a complete moron...

 

the dog had a cough because of a tumor in its throat and you taped shut the biggest exit from his throat... genius.

 

we do all those things to our dogs because they dont care. dogs dont feel naked, dogs are designed to be out side, and would probably feel pent up if you kept them inside all day. you think the dog wants to drink bottled water? no, it wants to drink from a lake, which would normally be on the ground like a bowl...

 

yes, dogs are very obviously different from children, that just changes which things are abuse and which arent, it doesnt change the fact that abusing either of them is wrong.

 

(incase you were wondering taping shut the mouth of any coughing animal falls squarely in the middle of WRONG)

[Dak]

muzzles are not either illegal, nor considered cruel-and-unusual.

muzzles are desighned to be safe and cause as little discomfort to the dog as possible DUCT TAPE IS NOT!

it is a pet's duty to obey its master

and its a masters duty to care for the pet.

we don't shove a child's face in their diapers after they messup' date='[/quote'] im pretty sure that doing that to a dog is, in actuall fact, considered 'not very nice' by the RSPCA, and prettymuch anyone even remotely compassionate.

we don't allow children to go weeks' date=' months, or even years with a bath[/quote'] im also pretty sure you shouldnt let dogs, either

you need to reevaluate your own inner madness by saning up a bit

anyone capable of comming up with this kind of bushism is in no position to comment on the sanity of others

If you want to have wild' date=' undomesticated dogs who don't listen to or obey you, then go ahead. I for one am not an idiot and do know that society demands a methodology and a system to dealing with things. Yes, duct-tape may have been unnecessary,[/quote'] this is why retuards should not be allowed dogs. disipline, wether your talking about childeren or dogs, need not involve duct tape. ever. if you cannot disipline a dog without resorting to cruelty, then you shouldnt be allowed a dog full stop

[Dak]

The fact is, it is morally acceptable to treat a dog like a dog

yes, but duct taping his muzzle shut isnt even nice enough to qualify as treating him like a dog, it qualifies as treating him like an innanimate object.

wow... you really are just a complete moron...[ETC]

werent you telling us to lay off a little while ago

[Callipygous]

werent you telling us to lay off a little while ago

 

yeah, sorry. i didnt realize the moron was still trying to defend the action as opposed to presenting it as a mistake he made.

 

 

 

 

but back to the original point... im gonna have to go with a no on the taming cheetas idea. there are enough maulings by violent animals already, we dont need to introduce a far more deadly species into society.

[Christ slave]

yeah, sorry. i didnt realize the moron was still trying to defend the action as opposed to presenting it as a mistake he made.

 

I presented it as a mistake many times, and I'm not going to pretend I'm some big genius for you and say that it is not possible that the duct-tape didn't cause his death, because it is possible that it was just the dog's day to die. If you want to completely and all of a sudden forget that and pretend I never said it was unfortunate and accidental, that is your own problem. I don't control you or your emotions. It is your own business to get your carnal lashing under control. Take responsibility for your own emotions, I don't deserve your insults.

 

I've said enough, I don't have to defend my conduct to you people. It's neither your dog, your house, your life, nor your accident. It's people like you who start wars and lead to the terrible conditions in society, because not only do you attempt to make things your business when it isn't, but you ridicule and persecute people unjustly and unforgivingly--and, as I said, in instances where your input doesn't even belong if you don't even attempt to have any bit of sophistication, maturity, and look to help. Rather, you cast insults and stones, make up the biggest assumptions and attempt to never let anyone live anything down.

 

For all you know this event was traumatic to me. When I attempt to discuss the event and the possibilities and the reality of the situation, you let not one word get out before slitting my throat at the sign of any open door that allows you to unleash your darkness. If I attempt to consider the dog died of old-aged, you pry yourself into my life and business, even now persecuting me for an event and attempting to play the judge, determining what exactly happened, and now crucifying me as if there is absolutely no possibility that this dog died of natural causes. I present my own thoughts and you let your own darkness run with it, reading and believing what you want to believe, indulging in the easing of your itching ears.

 

It is people like you who terrorize nations and instill fear in everyone, intimidating them with lies telling them they're going to suffer an eternal, fiery grave for their mistakes and no one will care to let them out. Meanwhile you go and bask in your own glory and the fact that you never made a mistake, insulting and degrading other people to make yourself feel good. Judge not lest you too be judged--and the measure you use will be measured to you. That is the truth, deal with it.

[Christ slave]

...and let me remind you, that you are nowhere near being without fault.

[Callipygous]

i dont care if you did kill the dog or not, that doesnt change the fact that what you did was cruel and that you put up entire paragraphs trying to say its the dogs fault cause he wouldnt shut up and its your right as his master to find a way to make him. maybe this event was traumatic for you... SO ACT LIKE IT. stop trying to make it look like it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do and take some responsibility for your actions. stop trying to tell us he deserved it as a just and reasonable method of discipline.

[Callipygous]

...and let me remind you, that you are nowhere near being without fault.

 

true... but go put your religion on someone else, i dont need it. the idea, oh mighty christian warrior you, is that you realize your faults and are sorry for them. not that you try to defend them and make excuses for why you did what you did.

[Christ slave]

true... but go put your religion on someone else, i dont need it. the idea, oh mighty christian warrior you, is that you realize your faults and are sorry for them. not that you try to defend them and make excuses for why you did what you did.

 

Seems someone has a hatred for Christ.

 

And, anyway, since you like to go reading what you want to read, I never said it was entirely the dog's fault that it happened. I said he was partly at fault, and that is absolutely true. I didn't just go, pick up the dog, duct-tape him for no reason and then go to bed. No, I am not making excuses either, that is truly me being honest of how the whole situation went down. Stop trying to make me look like I am and have always been absolute garbage. I have a right to a fair trial, and you obviously are one of those people who stand outside someone's jail cell with a sign demanding their execution just because they murdered someone, whether it was out of self-defense or if they accidentally did it.

[Christ slave]

Oh, and by the way, some people actually eat dogs. At least I didn't (intentionally) torture him. I don't even think he was tortured, but he did die during the night as he was stiff when I woke up the next morning. Oh, wait, am I being rude and insensitive for openly discussing this? Should I go crawl into a dark hole and shut my mouth forever, wallowing in self-pity, lest you call me an idiot, a jerk, and a psychopath? Should I repress the whole event and warp my mind out of order? No.

[Callipygous]

Seems someone has a hatred for Christ.

 

i have a hatred for people who think they NEEDchrist, i have a hatred for people who think christ is the only way, i have a hatred for people who try to force their religion/beliefs on others. i have no hatred for a person who existed 2000 years ago and lead a whole lot of people to lead better, more honest lives.

[Christ slave]

i have a hatred for people who think they NEEDchrist, i have a hatred for people who think christ is the only way, i have a hatred for people who try to force their religion/beliefs on others. i have no hatred for a person who existed 2000 years ago and lead a whole lot of people to lead better, more honest lives.

 

I don't believe only Jesus achieved a higher Christhood, I believe we're all a part of Christ and it is possible for us to be like and more than was Jesus was when he walked the planet 2,000 years ago. I believe you should stop stereo-typing me as the ordinary Christian people, as it seems you have a sort of resistance and hatred for them. Your experiences with other Christians are neither my fault, nor Christ's if they are false Christians.

 

I think you should stop assessing your present beliefs and understanding upon me as if I believe exactly what you believe.

[swansont]

It is obvious flaws exist. My point was that one cannot argue the state and circumstances of being an animal in comparison to a child. You reinstituting the fact that there are flaws do not refute my point' date=' and they only reinstate it.

 

The fact is, there was one or more persons describing my treatment of a dog as if I am supposed to treat the dog like he goes to school, was born from a woman, uses the toilet, and all sorts of other things (comparing the treatment of a child to a dog, using this as an excuse to make me look bad). The fact is, it is morally acceptable to treat a dog like a dog and less like a person. Just because you can name instances where the system falls apart doesn't change the higher moralle.[/quote']

 

Seems to me you are trying to justify your actions, and I was pointing out that many of your justifications don't hold up to scrutiny.

 

As far as treating dogs like dogs and not like people, I agree. But it also seems to me that you were treating the dog the way you did precisely because it was acting like a dog - dogs bark.

 

We all make mistakes. I think trying to justify or rationalize them just compounds them, and makes matters worse.

[Christ slave]

Seems to me you are trying to justify your actions' date=' and I was pointing out that many of your justifications don't hold up to scrutiny.

 

As far as treating dogs like dogs and not like people, I agree. But it also seems to me that you were treating the dog the way you did precisely because it was acting like a dog - dogs bark.

 

We all make mistakes. I think trying to justify or rationalize them just compounds them, and makes matters worse.[/quote']

 

No, I was simply lowering the level of judgement and condemnation people were so destructively dishing out. And, I mean destructive to their selves as well. You want to condemn me without knowing all the facts, and yes the scrutiny is very high.

 

It seems people have a predisposition to judge anyone based on their relations, be them surface or root, to a religiously valued teaching. They call me "high-and-mighty" for having to defend myself, but they don't realize that the only reason I may appear "high-and-mighty" and why I'm defending myself is because they are putting me in the position of doing it. They're antagonistic, and instigating someone to having to defend their selves and then judging them because of the position you put them in is truly a continuation of that antagonism. Do you not agree?

 

They antagonize and then seem shocked that I, as another human-being, am left to have to explain myself...and as I attempt to explain the truth and let them know what is going on, they become increasingly caustic and instead of justifying their selves and attempting to resort to being fair, they continue to cast stones and unwarrantly-persecute people. If they want to perpetuate their pride and arrogance and the persecution of other people (for an ACCIDENT, mind you), then their self-evaluation is deserved.

 

Dogs do bark, but they elevated my role in the situation to their own decided proportions, and the more they spoke, the more they piled it up. I am truly allowed to give my side of the story. It is when people like you guys go stoning people to death and calling them witches that there are people in society who feel the need to isolate their selves, justify their selves, become depressed, commit suicide, lie, repress and enter into denial because of the shockwaves of the hammers slammed in front of them from other people, and the like. I simply think you people need to reevaluate the way you treat other people, and I find your ridiculously overdrawn assumptions of this situation both putrid and ignorant.

 

Do you honestly think going around play the arbiter is good for your own psyche?