Let's domesticate cheetahs--Duct tape muzzle discussion

[Callipygous]

I don't believe only Jesus achieved a higher Christhood' date=' I believe we're all a part of Christ and it is possible for us to be like and more than was Jesus was when he walked the planet 2,000 years ago. I believe you should stop stereo-typing me as the ordinary Christian people, as it seems you have a sort of resistance and hatred for them. Your experiences with other Christians are neither my fault, nor Christ's if they are false Christians.

 

I think you should stop assessing your present beliefs and understanding upon me as if I believe exactly what you believe.[/quote']

 

 

dont worry, i think i share very few, if any beliefs with you.

 

i do believe you have a serious misunderstanding of the ideals of christianity. yes, we all have flaws, i have no problem with you making a mistake. i am only annoyed when you make a mistake, and then, instead of taking responsibility for it, you make all sorts of excuses trying to justify it or suggest that it wasnt your fault. im curious, exactly how much of the blame DOES the dog take for you holding it down and taping its mouth shut?

 

your screen name is christ slave, you make references to things that suggest you consider yourself a christian, you say things that make it seem like you follow the christian ideals. I am not a christian, but i have nothing but respect for certain aspects of the religion. I believe it is very helpful for some people as a support going through life, it enforces good moral actions. Over all i think it is a good thing in this society, it keeps a lot of people in line, gives a lot of people reason to keep going, and helps guide a lot of people. those are all good things. the downside is that lots of christians think that it is their right, and their duty, to spread the religion out and save all the non-believers. You take one of the most important teachings of christ, repentenance, and butcher it. So basically, you associate yourself with a group, and then took the most respectable thing about it and threw it out the window. you disgrace yourself and give other christians a bad name. thats why i dont respect you or the arguement your trying to make.

[Callipygous]

They antagonize and then seem shocked that I, as another human-being, am left to have to explain myself...and as I attempt to explain the truth and let them know what is going on, they become increasingly caustic and instead of justifying their selves and attempting to resort to being fair, they continue to cast stones and unwarrantly-persecute people. If they want to perpetuate their pride and arrogance and the persecution of other people (for an ACCIDENT, mind you), then their self-evaluation is deserved.

 

your not acting like it was an accident. the proper way to respond to the assault you are referring to would be something along the lines of "yes, your absolutely right, i did a terrible thing, it was a mistake, i have had to live with the consequences since then and i have learned and wont be making the same mistake again." not a list of excuses about how you were busy and it was late and the dog wouldnt shut up and after all its your dog and its supposed to obey you. take the blame, the dog is an animal, it follows its instincts, its instincts were telling it to bark. you cant be at fault when your not sentient.(i have never seen a dog shut up on command, by the way, it almost always requires you to deal with whatever situation the dog is barking about)

[AzurePhoenix]

I cried last night, after I had a chance to really think about what this bastard did. There's no use arguing wth him. He's a sociopath, irrational, cold, and narcisistic. And sociopaths of his kind (cultist zealots) cannot be made to truly understand such sane concepts as cruelty, guilt, resonsibility, compassion or evil (no matter what he claims to feel). In his mind, all there is his perverted version of God, sins as defined by this beastly deity, and the absolute nature of his divine superiority as a creation of this god. This souless monster has no substance to him beyond pure evil and "righteous" self-love. He's no different from Hitler, Sadam, Stalin, or an entire library of historical or fictional villains. He'll die before he will ever be made to understand why what he did was wrong, or why sane people should see him as they do.

[Christ slave]

I'm sorry, but my excuses were in response to the unnecessary criticism. You deserve the whole story, and as it turns out, you seem to even use that as an excuse to criticize more.

 

I could care less about your ideals. I don't follow a lot of the orthodox Christian ways, and moreover, I don't agree with your idolistic avatar as well. If you want to more about my beliefs, there's one. I think your avatar is idolatry.

 

And, I've already said the whole situation was unfortunate. I am not going to be a washed sow returning to wallow in the mud. I've given my explanation and justification. And, yes, I do deserve some justification. I think it's unnecessary for people to call me an idiot and all sorts of insults, even threatening me, and saying violently unnecessary things, and then when I try to justify myself to some degree, all you want is me to act like I am the worst monster in the world. There is a difference between:

A) killing a dog on purpose, torturing it, and then laughing

as opposed to

B) using a form of discipline which, as I indicated, may or most likely resulted in its death accidentally.

 

So, following this I do not deserve to be treated like A because A is not the situation. Likewise, I am not going to feel guilty for attempting to justify myself for being treated unjustly as if A were the case. You are wrong in attempting to make me feel like B is as worse as A. Indeed, justification is not in an any perverted or disgusting in this case. This is why there are degrees in a court of law (first degree, second degree, third degree murder, self-defense, etc.).

 

If you want to act like a tyrannical, self-righteous king and go judging me for every little thing I do, and when I attempt to tell you that your punishment is hypocritically similar to what you're punishing me for (you're disciplining me harshly, as I disciplined the dog harshly), you make yourselves out to be hypocrites and unfair.

 

Look! It's karma recorded.

[Christ slave]

I cried last night, after I had a chance to really think about what this bastard did. There's no use arguing wth him. He's a sociopath, irrational, cold, and narcisistic. And sociopaths of his kind (cultist zealots) cannot be made to truly understand such sane concepts as cruelty, guilt, resonsibility, compassion or evil. In his mind, all there is his perverted version of God, sins as defined by this beastly deity, and the absolute nature of his divine superiority as a creation of this god. This souless monster has no substance to him beyond pure evil and "righteous" self-love. He's no different from Hitler, Sadam, Stalin, or an entie library of historical or fictional villains. He'll die before he will ever be made to understand why what he did was wrong, or why sane people should see him as they do.

 

Your extreme fanaticism is quite perplexing.

[AzurePhoenix]

Spoken like a droid you hypocritical @&*^%>

[Christ slave]

Spoken like a droid you hypocritical @&*^%>

 

It seems that you added onto this. Why would you edit it just to release unnecessary anger? Does it make you feel high and mighty to treat people like that? It might feel good for headbangers to bang their head, but the loss of light and energy does indeed induce a depressive following (like a drug addict).

[swansont]

...If they want to perpetuate their pride and arrogance and the persecution of other people (for an ACCIDENT' date=' mind you), then their self-evaluation is deserved.

 

Dogs do bark, but they elevated my role in the situation to their own decided proportions, and the more they spoke, the more they piled it up. I am truly allowed to give my side of the story. It is when people like you guys go stoning people to death and calling them witches that there are people in society who feel the need to isolate their selves, justify their selves, become depressed, commit suicide, lie, repress and enter into denial because of the shockwaves of the hammers slammed in front of them from other people, and the like. I simply think you people need to reevaluate the way you treat other people, and I find your ridiculously overdrawn assumptions of this situation both putrid and ignorant.

[/quote']

 

Accident? You were wrapping a duct, and missed? You slipped, and as a result the duct tape was wrapped around the dog? Those are accidents. Your action was deliberate. Calling it an accident is just another example of trying to minimize your responsibility for your actions.

 

I hardly think that, of all the participants here, "people like [us] guys" are the ones who would be out stoning witches, if history is any guide.

 

As for your your complaints of persecution, I can only note that your participation in this thread is, as far as I can tell, voluntary.

[AzurePhoenix]

I'm sorry' date=' but my excuses were in response to the unnecessary criticism. You deserve the whole story, and as it turns out, you seem to even use that as an excuse to criticize more.

 

I could care less about your ideals. I don't follow a lot of the orthodox Christian ways, and moreover, I don't agree with your idolistic avatar as well. If you want to more about my beliefs, there's one. I think your avatar is idolatry.

[/quote'] Oh gee, we got the whole story. Well, that makes everything allright. How stupid could you be? Your forthcoming, shameless approach simply dehumanizes you further.

 

And what the hell does Yoda have to do with anything? He's a fictional, made-up, make believe, imaginary, pretend character, who I happen to respect, not for his great (albiet imaginary) power, but for his personality, and what he represents. Plus he's adorable. If you want to make a desperate argument, you'd better grab something with more substance.

[AzurePhoenix]

Why would you edit it just to release unnecessary anger?

I do not edit to release unnecessary anger. I do so to vent human hatred towards the source of my feelings. Would you rather I store it up, or go displace it in some non-related fashion? Plus, I'm a writer, editing is like breathing to me.

[AzurePhoenix]

(you're disciplining me harshly, as I disciplined the dog harshly)

You're dog was barking and you killed it.

You committed a despicable crime, whereas your dog did no such thing, and yet, I'm fairly certain we haven't cocooned your face in tape and left you to die.

[Callipygous]

I could care less about your ideals. I don't follow a lot of the orthodox Christian ways, and moreover, I don't agree with your idolistic avatar as well. If you want to more about my beliefs, there's one. I think your avatar is idolatry.

 

nothing has ever made me happier!

 

do i get to go to hell for it too?? which circle, oh mighty christian warrior?

 

And, I've already said the whole situation was unfortunate. I am not going to be a washed sow returning to wallow in the mud. I've given my explanation and justification. And, yes, I do deserve some justification. I think it's unnecessary for people to call me an idiot and all sorts of insults, even threatening me, and saying violently unnecessary things, and then when I try to justify myself to some degree, all you want is me to act like I am the worst monster in the world. There is a difference between:

A) killing a dog on purpose, torturing it, and then laughing

as opposed to

B) using a form of discipline which, as I indicated, may or most likely resulted in its death accidentally.

 

So, following this I do not deserve to be treated like A because A is not the situation. Likewise, I am not going to feel guilty for attempting to justify myself for being treated unjustly as if A were the case. You are wrong in attempting to make me feel like B is as worse as A. Indeed, justification is not in an any perverted or disgusting in this case. This is why there are degrees in a court of law (first degree, second degree, third degree murder, self-defense, etc.).

 

im not treating you like "A" im treating you like an impertinent child who doesnt understand that what he did is wrong and that, yes, the blame does fall squarely on his shoulders, and no, it is not even remotely the fault of the non-sentient dog who was barking. dogs do not make decisions, they have reactions, thats why its called "training" not "teaching". you are programming the dogs brain to react in a certain way, not teaching it how to behave. such a creature is incapable of being at fault.

 

i have already stated that i understand that people make mistakes and that i have no problem with that. i have a problem with the idea that you try to do anything but accept the blame and explain to us that you have already suffered the consequences of your actions and dont need our persecution on top of it. your trying to justify your actions, why?

[Callipygous]

And what the hell does Yoda have to do with anything? He's a fictional, made-up, make believe, imaginary, pretend[/b'] character, who I happen to respect, not for his great (albiet imaginary) power, but for his personality, and what he represents. Plus he's adorable. If you want to make a desperate argument, you'd better grab something with more substance.

 

i believe hes referring to my avatar, not yours.

 

mine is the "buddy christ" from dogma.

 

mighty fine movie : )

 

 

(there is also a mini statue of him on top of my second monitor, do i get to go to a deeper circle for that, OMCW?)

[AzurePhoenix]

Oh sorry to jump to that conclusion. I was kinda caught up in the "one on one" feeling I tend to get through some posting. And I agree,Dogma is a mighty fine movie indeed.

[Christ slave]

nothing has ever made me happier!

 

do i get to go to hell for it too?? which circle' date=' oh mighty christian warrior?[/quote']

 

I never condemned you to hell. Don't ridicule me. And for the record I don't believe in an eternal fiery hellish punishment.

[Callipygous]

I never condemned you to hell. Don't ridicule me. And for the record I don't believe in an eternal fiery hellish punishment.

 

 

you told me that my picture of a figurine (OF christ, btw), made by someone else, was idolatry. i have no qualms about ridiculing you about that. Idolatry being a chistian sin, and your name being christ slave, i assumed you would also believe in some form or another of hell.

 

my bad.

 

 

how did this get unlocked? this is more of a discussion of one persons moral fiber than a discussion on dog muzzling.

 

if nothing else it should be "debate on using duct tape to muzzle dogs." because i think we all agree that a regular muzzle is perfectly reasonable in certain situations. its specifically designed, and not just to hold the dogs mouth shut. they actually make them so the straps hit certain spots on the dogs head that release endorphins(sp?) that calm the dog down.

[Aardvark]

if nothing else it should be "debate on using duct tape to muzzle dogs." because i think we all agree that a regular muzzle is perfectly reasonable in certain situations.

 

A muzzle is fine.

 

Someone who mistakes duct tape for a muzzle is in need of pyschological help.

[Phi for All]

how did this get unlocked?

I split the thread off from the original.

this is more of a discussion of one persons moral fiber than a discussion on dog muzzling.

Good point. Name changed.

[Callipygous]

Good point. Name changed.

 

actually the point was that a discussion of one persons moral issues wasnt worthy of being unlocked.

 

dont get me wrong, im more than happy to keep going, i was dissapointed when you closed it. but i have to say i dont think its a terribly productive thread any more.

 

i suppose discussing whether its cruel to muzzle a dog with duct tape might be worth a thread, lets just hope it goes that direction. : P

[Lance]

I don't understand how every single person who has replied in this thread could condemn this man for killing his dog. He said it was an accident and I doubt he would do it again. I find it hard to believe that none of you has ever killed or caused the suffering in anything. Surely not all of you are vegans?

 

To be honest I wouldn't mind if he had hit the dog with a shovel to kill it. He didn't asphyxiate the dog, I personally don't even see how he caused the death at all. It sounds like you guys are simply persecuting him for his name.

 

And it disturbs me that that somebody would relate killing a dog to killing a child. And you say he is a psychopath?

[Lance]

 

i suppose discussing whether its cruel to muzzle a dog with duct tape might be worth a thread' date=' lets just hope it goes that direction. : P[/quote']

 

cru·el

adj. cru·el·er, or cru·el·ler cru·el·est or cru·el·lest

 

1. Disposed to inflict pain or suffering.

2. Causing suffering; painful.

 

It may be cruel, but by the definition of cruel so would forcing your child to eat.

[Callipygous]

the problem isnt that he killed the dog. as i have said several times, i understand that people make mistakes. its the fact that he is trying to avoid blame, by saying it was the dogs fault, and he was busy, and it wouldnt shut up... and all that other crap that im on him about. people make mistakes, but they should take responsibility for their actions.

[rakuenso]

Oh, and by the way, some people actually eat dogs. At least I didn't (intentionally) torture him. I don't even think he was tortured, but he did die during the night as he was stiff when I woke up the next morning. Oh, wait, am I being rude and insensitive for openly discussing this? Should I go crawl into a dark hole and shut my mouth forever, wallowing in self-pity, lest you call me an idiot, a jerk, and a psychopath? Should I repress the whole event and warp my mind out of order? No.

 

Eating a dog and suffocating a dog is different

 

People eat dogs to survive, which is a necessity, and is often done in a quick and efficient manner (I'm from China so I have experience in saying this)

 

While your method of disposing the dog is a lot different, you didn't eat the dog nor put it to any good use after it died now did you?

 

The point is, eating a dog and killing a dog have different objectives.

[Callipygous]

cru·el

adj. cru·el·er' date=' or cru·el·ler cru·el·est or cru·el·lest

 

1. Disposed to inflict pain or suffering.

2. Causing suffering; painful.

 

It may be cruel, but by the definition of cruel so would forcing your child to eat.[/quote']

 

how do you figure? i have never felt pain or suffering from eating my dinner.

[Lance]

Eating a dog and suffocating a dog is different

 

People eat dogs to survive' date=' which is a necessity, and is often done in a quick and efficient manner (I'm from China so I have experience in saying this)

 

While your method of disposing the dog is a lot different, you didn't eat the dog nor put it to any good use after it died now did you?

 

The point is, eating a dog and killing a dog have different objectives.[/quote']

 

Most people do not eat to survive, they eat because its enjoyable and they stop when its hurts (I'm from the United States so I have experience in saying this)

 

Now, if somebody made a post that included how the night before they ate a double quarter pounder and large fries (as I did the other day) would you flame them like you did him? I doubt it (but Ill check back later just in case).