Frequency of a single atom?

[sqtube]

A hydrogen atom, vibrates at a frequency common to all hydrogen atoms, how does one measure that?

 

Do we even have tech available to measure such frequencies?

[Strange]

Spectroscopy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy

[John Cuthber]

It "vibrates" at a collection of frequencies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_spectral_series

[studiot]

 

A hydrogen atom, vibrates at a frequency common to all hydrogen atoms, how does one measure that?

 

 

You need to distinguish between single atoms and molecules.

Only the latter can really be said to 'vibrate' in the sense that the nuclear centres of mass undergo periodic variations of relative position.

 

Single atoms can't do this, so spectral effects are due to electronic transitions.

These are not atomic vibrations and account for the spectra mentioned by John Cuthber and Strange.

The Rydberg constant is mentioned and this can be measured with sufficient accuracy to distinguish between hydrogen isotopes.

 

Other forms of spectroscopy interact with in rotational mode, NMR, Zeeman and Mossbaur spectroscopy.

[John Cuthber]

 

 

These are not atomic vibrations and account for the spectra mentioned by John Cuthber and Strange.

 

Did you spot the quote marks I used round the word "vibrate"?

[studiot]

 

Did you spot the quote marks I used round the word "vibrate"?

 

 

Yes, your post appeared whilst I was thinking about how to put mine, so I added the reference to it.

[sqtube]

Hmmm let me try ask this another way, Here is a H atom, lets for the time being not concern ourselves with how it came about, It has all the bits of a single H atom. there are forces keeping it together, "maintaining" it as an H atom. So if I wanted to break it up into bits, ie dis assemble it. I'm thinking there should be a frequency (combination off, or maybe harmonics etc) I could apply that would 'resonate' the parts out of the H state?

 

Battling for words to describe this.......

[John Cuthber]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization

[sqtube]

Electro- medicine, like the SCIO or Multi wave oscillator or Rifes microscope, these guys had a way of being able to ascertain the frequency of a parasite and by manipulating that freq, destroy the parasite.

How? how do you 'measure' that 'sort' of frequency?

[ajb]

Do you have an atom just a proton?

 

Are you asking about the electronic transitions? Or are you thinking of some vibrations of the uud quarks? (or really excited states thereof, and so nucleon resonances?)

[Strange]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization

 

To add to that, the ionisation energy (the energy to completely remove an electron at the lowest energy level from the atom) is 2.18 × 10⁻¹⁸ joule (13.6 electron volts). You can convert that to the frequency of the photon required to displace it (3.2884654 × 10¹⁵ hertz)

Electro- medicine, like the SCIO or Multi wave oscillator or Rifes microscope, these guys had a way of being able to ascertain the frequency of a parasite and by manipulating that freq, destroy the parasite.

 

You need to provide some references to this. The only Rifes I am aware of seems to be some sort of 1930s crank.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Strange

[studiot]

 

Electro- medicine, like the SCIO or Multi wave oscillator or Rifes microscope, these guys had a way of being able to ascertain the frequency of a parasite and by manipulating that freq, destroy the parasite.

How? how do you 'measure' that 'sort' of frequency?

 

 

Never heard of any of this so further details or at least a reference is required.

 

However a microwave oven will kill live cells the same will it will cook things.

The microwave radiation is of the correct frequency to be absorbed by the water molecules in the cells, thus creating great heat.

 

But this is not atomic vibration, this is molecular vibration.

Edited May 21, 2016 by studiot

[swansont]

Electro- medicine, like the SCIO or Multi wave oscillator or Rifes microscope, these guys had a way of being able to ascertain the frequency of a parasite and by manipulating that freq, destroy the parasite.How? how do you 'measure' that 'sort' of frequency?

A parasite and a hydrogen atom are not the same thing. That's a very different conversation.

[sqtube]

So we have an atom, molecules and complex organisms/ structures

 

each with more bonds to break to facilitate dis integration.

 

heres a link to a rather interesting story...

 

http://johnbedini.net/john34/rife.html

 

Quackery aside for the moment, have a look at the science Bedini brings to this.

 

interferometry?

[swansont]

Focus might be a better word. How about you focus on one topic?

[studiot]

 

Focus might be a better word. How about you focus on one topic?

 

Yea what is sqtube advertising? +1

[John Cuthber]

 

Quackery aside for the moment, have a look at the science Bedini brings to this.

 

 

If you leave the quackery aside, Bedini doesn't seem to bring anything.

[sqtube]

That's exactly why I'm here, to seek the borders of this question, from those with a far greater knowledge than I,so I can get on with some research.

 

I appreciate the opinions above, have listed them and will systematically read up about all.

 

chladni patterns, a plate attached to a speaker cone, create intricate patterns when frequencies are played through the speaker, the key word here is it (the frequency) creates. change the frequency and the pattern changes. No one has devised a 3d version of this device as far as I am aware, imagine what that could look like.

 

so you can create using frequency, can you change things with frequency? can you negate things with frequency? back to basic building material..

 

You would need to know what 'basic' frequency you are working with first, surely? Hence the question how do I measure frequency, having an electronics background I would use an oscilloscope, that's easy when dealing with electrical pulses. One step further, an animal cell has a 0.12volt potential per cell, where would I put the electrodes to measure its frequency? How do I measure the frequency of a mitochondria within that cell?

 

Is the statement that any atom, molecule or cell manages to 'maintain' its frequency to keep it's integrity, correct?

[TransientResponse]

Let’s (also) bring up some definitions and refresh our clearance in topic, than just asking and answering questions.

 

-Vibration: a mechanical phenomenon whereby oscillations occur about an equilibrium point. (Wikimedia)

 

-Frequency: is the number of occurrences of a repeating event per unit time.(wikimedia)

-Molecule: A group of elements (or compounds) that come together with stronger bounds than physical bounds, or weaker bounds than nucleic bounds. Two same element atoms might make a molecule as well as a compound with third... (Chemical/Ionic/Covalent bounds). A molecule might have two atoms or billionsxbillions atoms..

 

-Atom: Last and smallest form of the matter after breaking all physical and chemical bounds, till only nuclear bounds left.

 

* * *

The Temperature is a form of vibration and atoms vibrate too, because they do have temperature. Bulk space has no vibration. What sort of frequency can be obtianed from termperature-vibration? Is not themperature universal thing?

Is a "vibration value" or "frequency" of an atom practically valuable, or measurable? Such a small thing's measurability possible? Probably not only because of the measuring disturbance but also the dynamic instantaneous micro changes in time, space, temperature, acceleration, etc... Around a very very very tiny thing, the atom?

Even if two atoms are also molecules, Molecules usually repeat theirselves and not really "small". .A group of molecules can be microscopic to visible. Also an atom is not easily found itself alone, unless noble atom.....

 

New Questions Might be related to this issue:

How could frequencies be helpful? What frequency does a specific molecule have? And is it distinguishing from others? That might help identifying the molecule? Does it help to distinguish an unknown material's identity?

How noble gases are distinguished, which has no molecular form? However, It does not exist singly; their repeatance lead to huge clouds of single atoms without creating a molecular form. This seem promising for measurability.

Edited May 21, 2016 by TransientResponse

[John Cuthber]

 

chladni patterns, a plate attached to a speaker cone, create intricate patterns when frequencies are played through the speaker, the key word here is it (the frequency) creates. change the frequency and the pattern changes. No one has devised a 3d version of this device as far as I am aware, imagine what that could look like.

 

 

The 3 d version looks quite similar to the 2 d version.

Obviously it's a bit harder to get a picture. you can't just put some salt on it, but you can get the same effect by bouncing light off it.

Fig 5 here

https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys193/lecture_notes/matthew_fisher_ncur_paper_c4_handbell_vibration_modes.pdf

shows the same sort of patterns for a hand bell.

[Enthalpy]

These are not atomic vibrations and account for the spectra mentioned by John Cuthber and Strange.

 

I have absolutely nothing against calling "vibration" the movement of the electron during the absorption or emission of a photon.

 

In that process, where the wave function is a superposition of two orbitals (which are per definition immobile, or better, stationary), the electron's mean position, speed and acceleration oscillate, which explains that the electron radiates while it doesn't on an orbital. Except for the electron delocalization, this resembles pretty much any vibration.

[studiot]

enthalpy

I have absolutely nothing against calling "vibration" the movement of the electron during the absorption or emission of a photon.

 

In that process, where the wave function is a superposition of two orbitals (which are per definition immobile, or better, stationary), the electron's mean position, speed and acceleration oscillate, which explains that the electron radiates while it doesn't on an orbital. Except for the electron delocalization, this resembles pretty much any vibration.

 

 

Nor have I.

 

But an electron is not an atom and this thread is entitled the frequency of a single atom, which does not vibrate in the circumstances you outline.