Genetic Engineering

[Rahid Rahi]

The manipulation of an organism's genetic material.Work of this nature is usually performed with bacteria and Viruses and involves the addition of new genes to the chromosome complement or the replacement of certain genes by other gene.Genetic Engineering is used to take genes and segments of DNA from one species and put them on other species.

[AzurePhoenix]

What are you asking or proposing? *EDIT* Oops, didn't spot your edit. Well in that case, all I have to say is whatever they think they can do, go for it.

[Hellbender]

I think it certainly has it uses, but make sure its uses stay, well, useful.

[rakuenso]

way to broad of a question and topic

[ecoli]

I think there are severe consequences for this. Here's a political one. There's a company called Monsanto that creates and sells seeds to farmers. They have genetically modified these seeds so they cannot produce their own seeds, so farmers cannot replant seeds, and are forced to continue to buy from Monsanto.

 

not only that, Monasanto is involved in law siuts, they are trying to sue farmer's that are replanting seeds, on piracy charges.

(here's one example: http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2005/Monsanto-Sues-Farmers30jan05.htm)

now, that is ridiculous.

 

edit: read this too http://www.earthsave.org/ge.htm

[Skye]

I really don't see the problem with it. The simple answer is to not use Monsanto seed if you want to save seed, trade seed, whatever. There are plenty of other seeds out there.

[ecoli]

I really don't see the problem with it. The simple answer is to not use Monsanto seed if you want to save seed, trade seed, whatever. There are plenty of other seeds out there.

 

Not really, if you consider other companies are probably doing the same thing.

[darth tater]

Isn't selective breeding a crude form of genetic engineering?

 

As I understand it, the corn plant used to be a lot different than it is today and the cow, when wild never produced upwards of 10 gallons of milk a day.

[AzurePhoenix]

The corn plant was a type of grass called teosinte, which basically looked like plump green wheat. The Silk Moth is another perfect example. Both are "engineered" to the point that they can't survive in the wild. Of course, genetic engineering also allows for recomninant engineering, introducing genes from one organism into another, whereas with artificial selection, your stuck with those expressed by the organism being bred, so inmany ways it's more limited.

[rakuenso]

Monsanto is the paragon of genetic engineering gone bad.. cough MRSA cough..

[Mokele]

Not really, if you consider other companies are probably doing the same thing.

 

I strongly doubt that, simply based on the fact that Monsanto has done similar things in other areas (chemicals, mostly), and have cultivated a reputation for it. Their behavior is abnormal within other industries they are part of, and therefore I have very strong doubts that they can be taken as a representative case for firms in the genetic engineering business.

 

Just because one person in the room is a jerk doesn't necessarily mean everyone in the room is a jerk, even if they're all there for a common reason.

 

Mokele

[Aardvark]

Monsanto is the paragon of genetic engineering gone bad.. cough MRSA cough..

 

 

As MRSA is not genetically engineered and has anything at all to do with genetic engineering what is your point?

[Sayonara]

Isn't selective breeding a crude form of genetic engineering?

Yup, and nobody's complained about that over the past few thousand years.

[ecoli]

Yup, and nobody's complained about that[/i'] over the past few thousand years.

 

Not entirely true, in recent times, we are seeing the effects of selective breeding, and some are very unhappy (environmentalists, notable).

 

Because of selective breeding, or so I've heard, we will loose all our natural banana crops. Sucks if your a banana republic.

[Dak]

selective breeding takes place over many (ususally many many) years, which gives the local surrounding ecosystem time to adapt. genetic engeneering can introduce genetic changes with extreme rapidity, leaving the environment little time to adapt.

 

sorry if this all sounds a bit hippyish, but there have been numerouse examples throughout history where relatively huge changes in the local ecosystem have been absorbed by the sheer magnitude of the ecosystem and have failed to have a significant impact; and also numerouse examples of tiny little changes, like the introduction of a new species of insect, having a huge knock-on effect that cascades into a humungoid altercation within the local ecosystem.

 

untill we are capable of understanding the complex interactions between all the members of the local ecosystem to the level where we can reliably predict the outcome of suddenly and significantly changing the charectoristics of one of its member species, i think we should exhibit extreme caution when genetically tinkering with species, even plants, that will be (or could be) released into the wild.

[rakuenso]

As MRSA is not genetically engineered and has anything at all to do with genetic engineering what is your point?

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-9455.html

[Mokele]

Because of selective breeding, or so I've heard, we will loose all our natural banana crops.

 

I'm a bit skeptical of this. Source?

 

untill we are capable of understanding the complex interactions between all the members of the local ecosystem to the level where we can reliably predict the outcome of suddenly and significantly changing the charectoristics of one of its member species, i think we should exhibit extreme caution when genetically tinkering with species, even plants, that will be (or could be) released into the wild.

 

The problem is that I doubt we'll *ever* be able to do that; there are simply too many variables to be accounted for. Not to mention that ecosystems are not static. Everything in them in continually evolving and changing. By the time you have a handle on species X, species Y has evolved some completely new traits and altered it's ecological interactions. Not to mention those species capable of learning.

 

Also, ecosystems themselves are not stable, not in the long term. Sure, a new species we introduce or create might shake things up. But a natural migration or climatic change or evolutionary innovation of a member of this ecosystem might do the same.

 

Hell, just look at what domestic cats in the US are doing to songbird populations. Or the ecological disruption that happens anyway when we tear down a forest to make a wheat field. There's no way to do *anything*, even breathe, without causing effects. The question is, what level of effects are acceptable.

 

Mokele

[ecoli]

I'm a bit skeptical of this. Source?

 

Of course

 

http://www.earthsave.org/pdf/fall2003.pdf (you have to look for the article in the newsletter)

 

Scientists say they

will be unable to prevent the

extirpation of the banana as an

edible commercial crop. And its

demise may be one more powerful

argument in the hands of those

who are concerned about genetic

modification of foods.

The banana's main problem is

that it has become sterile and

seedless as a result of 10' date='000

years of selective breeding. It has,

over time, become a plant with

unvarying genetic sameness. The

genetic diversity needed to cope

with environmental stresses, such

as diseases and crop pests, has

long ago been bred out of the

banana. Consequently, the banana

plantations of the world are completely

vulnerable to devastating

environmental pressures.[/quote']

[Mokele]

Well, on one hand, the information *does* seem plausible, but the pertinence to genetic engineering is nearly zero.

 

Selective breeding is basically original and crappy genetic engineering. It takes a hell of a long time, and produces collosal problems like these banana issues and the famous health troubles of purebred dogs. In each case, the problem is the gene pool. In plants, the ability to clonally reproduce has allowed us to create entire crops with an original gene pool of 1 and no diversity, leading to these problems. In dogs, while the lack of natural (or low tech artificial) clonal reproduction has necessitated an expanded gene pool, the selective breeding process as still relied on very small gene pools which are very prone to manifesting negative recessive traits; it's basically inbreeding, but not quite.

 

However, genetic engineering is not so restricted. If we want a plant with, say, fungus resistance, we can add the resistance genes to thousands or millions of different individual plants, resulting in a huge gene pool for the future and much-improved genetic diversity. Furthermore, because of genetic techniques we can actually monitor the diversity directly and, if it gets too low, just alter some more plants from the non-altered population, giving the gene pool a fresh infusion.

 

While the article is right about the dangers of poorly-planned selective breeding, those same dangers do not directly translate to GM crops.

 

Mokele

[Dak]

actually, couldnt genetic modification save the bannannas? there must be a few non-wyld type alleles in the banana gene pool, even if only due to the base level of mutation. they could be gathered and artificially spread throughout the bannanna population. or if not, simalar genes from banannas relatives could be introdused by GM.

 

does anyone know what the closest relative of the bannana is, off the top of their head? and are there no wild banannas?

[ecoli]

actually, couldnt genetic modification save the bannannas?

 

Sure, by restricting disease and the like...but it all depends on who you ask.

The environmentalists want us to think that bananas are incapable of operating in the case of environmental disaster.

 

there must be a few[/i'] non-wyld type alleles in the banana gene pool, even if only due to the base level of mutation.

 

Sure, but a few plants wouldn't be enough to save an entire population, or to keep the world supplied with bananas. Certainly all the banana plants would not die off, but enough to effect the market.

[Dak]

there must be a few non-wyld type alleles in the banana gene pool, even if only due to the base level of mutation.

Sure, but a few plants wouldn't be enough to save an entire population, or to keep the world supplied with bananas. Certainly all the banana plants would not die off, but enough to effect the market.

ah, but if we took all these different alleles and put them into lots of mummy banannas, then the new generation of baby nbananas would have regained a relatively high level of genetic diversity, and would be abtle t o adapt to the environment, basically even if the nanbana species has lost a lot of its versatility, this will likely be due to a change in the frequensy of the alleles present in the banana population, not due to any alleles actually becoming extinct, so to speak. so, the bannana population will still have lots and lots of alleles, as much as it did before we started selectively breeding it problably, but most the alleles will be present at a much lower number BUT tehy will still be there. so if we find tehm, and genetiscally modify them (the rare alleles) into lots of new bananas TA DA genetic diversity will be reintrodused, the banana species will have been save d and monkeys everywere will rejoice.

 

if that doesnt makes ense im sorry, iv been drinking sothern cumfort.

[ecoli]

it makes sense... but it would probably be cheaper in the long run to stabilize our current population, by crossing mutants with wild-type.

[Dak]

youd have less control over what genes were re-introduced... but given the context of the discussion i guses that might not be a bad thing, as it was broadly speeking that which put the bananas in their present perdicament.

 

one thing the article in your link didnt make clear was, if banannas are steirle and seedless, how do they reproduce? dus anyone know?

 

The manipulation of an organism's genetic material.Work of this nature is usually performed with bacteria and Viruses and involves the addition of new genes to the chromosome complement or the replacement of certain genes by other gene.Genetic Engineering is used to take genes and segments of DNA from one species and put them on other species.

i dont know wether this has only been tested in petridish cultures of human cells or wether its been tested in actual huamns, but genes from other species have been plonked into human genomes, usualy to fight disease, cancer or genetic disorders. only rule is yu cannot put genes in the germ line (ie the subjeects kids cannot inherit the gene), they must go in the somatic cell line.

[AzurePhoenix]

dammit, wrong thread..... ignore this......