Obsolescence of Sources of Fact

[B. John Jones]

 

 

Actually all of them are just as alive as jesus...

 

 

Faith is not a path to anything but gullibility... You take on this is wildly deceptive and blatantly dishonest, please give an example of biblical faith being evidence of anything but wishful thinking...

 

Are you attempting to get me in trouble with the mods? Oh well. The Bible says that on the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses, a truth will be established. Devoted Christians testify at large that the Spirit of God (a person of the deity) testifies directly to each believer. We testify as one unit to the truth which is confirmed in us. When one of your neighbors receives this testimony, the Holy Spirit again confirms it in them. If another neighbor rejects it, the truth of Scripture is still confirmed in the believing church, not by their agreement, as skeptics would presume, but through their common faith.

[ajb]

Still, not really evidence of anything.

[B. John Jones]

"What if 3,000 years is precisely a moment in time. "

then you are making stuff up.

 

No, actually every interval of time is in essence a moment, a moment by definition being of indefinite length--always relative to a point of reference. In the context of eternity, or even in the context of a mere million years, 3000 years is a mere particle of time.

 

 

How do you explain away gods word demanding murder genocide, rape pillage and taking of little girls as sex slaves?

 

I see why you use lower case, "god." Yes, the heathen religions all approved those. Judeo-Christian Scripture condemned them. (Yes, I'm prepared to answer)

Still, not really evidence of anything.

Certainly not evidence to the unbeliever, unless you know a devoted Christian well, before and after faith, and the transformation that took place.

Edited June 27, 2016 by B. John Jones

[ajb]

Certainly not evidence to the unbeliever, unless you know a devoted Christian well, before and after faith, and the transformation that took place.

This is only evidence that people can change... not really evidence of anything 'higher'. You will have to do better.

[B. John Jones]

This is only evidence that people can change... not really evidence of anything 'higher'. You will have to do better.

 

The problem is, that the basis of what the Bible says goes like this: Faith comes first, then God himself proves what the Bible says. Scientific people won't test the Bible by faith, which is the only way to test faith or the content of the Bible. As children, we were willing to test things like trying to walk with someone's help, or riding a bike, even though we knew we might fall. We trusted someone. But most scientific folk never trusted the Christian testimony.

Edited June 27, 2016 by B. John Jones

[ajb]

Scientific people won't test the Bible by faith, which is the only way to test faith or the content of the Bible.

You miss the point that science cannot test the Bible using faith, nor does faith provide evidence of anything.

 

You can of course test specific claims in the Bible Scientifically.

[John Cuthber]

 

The Bible says that on the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses, a truth will be established.

And so the Bible tells us that Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler were telling the truth about the Jews.

 

 

No, actually every interval of time is in essence a moment, a moment by definition being of indefinite length--always relative to a point of reference. I

 

Not if you are being biblical about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(time)

tells us

"A moment (momentum) was a medieval unit of time. The movement of a shadow on a sundial covered 40 moments in a solar hour."

and you have said elsewher that sundials are the hip and happening thing (or something like that).

 

 

 

I see why you use lower case, "god." Yes, the heathen religions all approved those. Judeo-Christian Scripture condemned them. (Yes, I'm prepared to answer)

You seem prepared to answer- but the answer you give is wrong- as the Bible bashers' answer to this question usually is.

The Christian faith takes the Gospels as the Gospel truth.

And it's in the gospel that we find Christ making it abundantly clear that He has not come to condemn the scriptures.

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

 

Which brings either you or Matthew into the problem of bearing false witness. I don't care which of you is wrong, but one of you must be.

 

But most scientific folk never trusted the Christian testimony.

Clearly bollocks.

Atheism was, until recently a rare thing. Up till, say the middle of the 20th century nearly all scientists in the Western world were Christians.

 

And then we learned better.

We learned, for example, that the Bible says things that are simply not true.

And this is the third time I have pointed that out to you.

[StringJunky]

And this is the third time I have pointed that out to you.

"Head, meet Wall".

[Moontanman]

 

No, actually every interval of time is in essence a moment, a moment by definition being of indefinite length--always relative to a point of reference. In the context of eternity, or even in the context of a mere million years, 3000 years is a mere particle of time.

 

I see why you use lower case, "god." Yes, the heathen religions all approved those. Judeo-Christian Scripture condemned them. (Yes, I'm prepared to answer)

Certainly not evidence to the unbeliever, unless you know a devoted Christian well, before and after faith, and the transformation that took place.

 

 

If you are prepared to answer I suggest you do so...I used the lower case god because you have yet to show why your god is any more real than any other god... I have asked you about specific things in the bible, not any pagan religion. Your obfuscation is testimony to your dishonesty, if you were honest you would either refute my claims or admit i was correct, you do neither and in doing that you break your own 9th commandment...

[B. John Jones]

And so the Bible tells us that Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler were telling the truth about the Jews.

 

The truth about the Jews was already established. Satan's men are against themselves, which is why they destroy.

 

Not if you are being biblical about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(time)

tells us

"A moment (momentum) was a medieval unit of time. The movement of a shadow on a sundial covered 40 moments in a solar hour."

and you have said elsewher that sundials are the hip and happening thing (or something like that).

 

The Bible is in Hebrew and Greek (Aramaic not relevant here). The authors' intents were in Hebrew and Greek. The Hebrew terms usually used are several, together comprising a short amount or a marker of time, that will be swallowed up, with a yet a tone of peace and tranquility. The Greek conveys a quick or swiftly passing portion of time. News is most accurate nearer the event. I'll bank with the ancients.

 

You seem prepared to answer- but the answer you give is wrong- as the Bible bashers' answer to this question usually is.

The Christian faith takes the Gospels as the Gospel truth.

And it's in the gospel that we find Christ making it abundantly clear that He has not come to condemn the scriptures.

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

 

Which brings either you or Matthew into the problem of bearing false witness. I don't care which of you is wrong, but one of you must be.

 

 

 

 

Christ was very clear that Moses' law was to a purpose, to perfect persons. Yet Christ raised the bar of law to such extreme requirements, that every person would be put to shame, who would attempt to keep it. Ignoring the laws of conscience, of Moses or of Christ is utter contempt. Christ obeyed them absolutely, and paying close attention to them is the only means of perfection for common persons.

 

Matthew 5:17“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved."

Clearly bollocks.

Atheism was, until recently a rare thing. Up till, say the middle of the 20th century nearly all scientists in the Western world were Christians.

 

And then we learned better.

We learned, for example, that the Bible says things that are simply not true.

And this is the third time I have pointed that out to you.

 

 

You haven't pointed it out. You've made a general claim. Show me what the Bible says, that "just isn't true."

Edited June 27, 2016 by B. John Jones

[Strange]

You haven't pointed it out. You've made a general claim. Show me what the Bible says, that "just isn't true."

 

 

Most of Genesis. (Both versions)

[Arete]

Show me what the Bible says, that "just isn't true."

 

I'm always curious why conservative Christians are so against gay marriage when Joseph had two dads

 

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

[Moontanman]

 

The truth about the Jews was already established. Satan's men are against themselves, which is why they destroy.

 

The Bible is in Hebrew and Greek (Aramaic not relevant here). The authors' intents were in Hebrew and Greek. The Hebrew terms usually used are several, together comprising a short amount or a marker of time, that will be swallowed up, with a yet a tone of peace and tranquility. The Greek conveys a quick or swiftly passing portion of time. News is most accurate nearer the event. I'll bank with the ancients.

 

 

 

 

 

Christ was very clear that Moses' law was to a purpose, to perfect persons. Yet Christ raised the bar of law to such extreme requirements, that every person would be put to shame, who would attempt to keep it. Ignoring the laws of conscience, of Moses or of Christ is utter contempt. Christ obeyed them absolutely, and paying close attention to them is the only means of perfection for common persons.

 

Matthew 5:17“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved."

Clearly bollocks.

Atheism was, until recently a rare thing. Up till, say the middle of the 20th century nearly all scientists in the Western world were Christians.

 

 

You haven't pointed it out. You've made a general claim. Show me what the Bible says, that "just isn't true."

 

 

I already have shown you what the bible says that isn't true, you have dishonestly hand waved it away. Here is just a small part of the dishonesty of the bible, No one who knew anything about genetics would make such a claim Genesis 30: 25-43

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Thread locked pending staff discussion