Note to the moderators

[Ihcisphysicist]

I thought that this was a speculation forum where people could discuss certain subjects and concepts that could still be at its infancy however as we get other people's insight and perspective, we are able to develop more ideas on the concept but sadly even in this trash bin forum, when a topic gets beyond the understandable norms of present science it is pinned down. Where else can we discuss on things and concepts from the farthest perspective of our brain.

[Daecon]

There's a difference between thinking outside the box and ignoring the box.

[Strange]

I thought that this was a speculation forum where people could discuss certain subjects and concepts that could still be at its infancy however as we get other people's insight and perspective, we are able to develop more ideas on the concept but sadly even in this trash bin forum, when a topic gets beyond the understandable norms of present science it is pinned down. Where else can we discuss on things and concepts from the farthest perspective of our brain.

 

 

This is still a science forum. If you have a new idea that is based on solid evidence and/or a mathematical basis, then you can discuss it in the Speculations area. If it is just stories you made up, with no basis in reality, then you need to find somewhere else.

[ajb]

I thought that this was a speculation forum where people could discuss certain subjects and concepts that could still be at its infancy...

Sure, but that does not mean you should make up whatever you want. A good speculation should be based on extending or changing what is established in science. In fact, if done correctly, one could post speculations in the mainstream sections. But the truth is that most 'speculations' are just made up nonsense and a mix of buzzwords thrown together. They are usually very far from science and often very hard to point to what is specifically wrong - unless you frame things scientifically how can you expect a scientific answer?

[Ihcisphysicist]

There's a difference between thinking outside the box and ignoring the box.

But what for some persons could be thinking outside the box could be at the very core of someone else's box.

[Fuzzwood]

Then I believe you are simply at the wrong forum.

[Strange]

But what for some persons could be thinking outside the box could be at the very core of someone else's box.

 

 

No, it just means you are making stuff up while making it clear you are totally ignorant of basic science and, more importantly, of the scientific method.

 

Science does not progress by people making up fairy stories. Please go and find another forum where they are happy to listen to your drivel.

[Ihcisphysicist]

Sure, but that does not mean you should make up whatever you want. A good speculation should be based on extending or changing what is established in science. In fact, if done correctly, one could post speculations in the mainstream sections. But the truth is that most 'speculations' are just made up nonsense and a mix of buzzwords thrown together. They are usually very far from science and often very hard to point to what is specifically wrong - unless you frame things scientifically how can you expect a scientific answer?

What you said is not far from the truth but still every big theories and concept evolved from a simple idea. Proving it wrong is one thing but undermining every new ideas and concept is just not cool. It's so like those science institution in the 1800s in some countries.

[ajb]

What you said is not far from the truth but still every big theories and concept evolved from a simple idea.

History tells us that simple ideas quickly become complicated

 

Proving it wrong is one thing but undermining every new ideas and concept is just not cool.

Okay, we all have new ideas. I have had ideas that turn out to be wrong...this is normal in science and mathematics. Sometimes I see myself that they are wrong and other times my colleagues point this out.

 

Anyway, these ideas are always based on what we do know. They are a small step or push beyond what is known, and like I said often wrong. New ideas are not to be confused with simply making sh*t up.

[Ihcisphysicist]

 

 

No, it just means you are making stuff up while making it clear you are totally ignorant of basic science and, more importantly, of the scientific method.

 

Science does not progress by people making up fairy stories. Please go and find another forum where they are happy to listen to your drivel.

I don't know if you are aware of this or not but science was never instilled when humans decided to walk on earth but it was because of the creativity and intuition of certain individuals that dreamed and thought alike for which the average peers might have out cast him from the group but it is only because of such far fetch ideas about reality it has become possible for everyone to live and salvage the best of this generation.

History tells us that simple ideas quickly become complicated

 

 

Okay, we all have new ideas. I have had ideas that turn out to be wrong...this is normal in science and mathematics. Sometimes I see myself that they are wrong and other times my colleagues point this out.

 

Anyway, these ideas are always based on what we do know. They are a small step or push beyond what is known, and like I said often wrong. New ideas are not to be confused with simply making sh*t up.

Are you absolutely sure that what your field of expertise covers is everything there ever is?

[Fuzzwood]

Then you can simply amend your speculations by explaining mathematically how they would explain observations better than current theories? If not, then what's the point? Those observations won't go away.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Fuzzwood

[ajb]

Are you absolutely sure that what your field of expertise covers is everything there ever is?

Did I say that? I only used my own experience as an example. I am sure many others will have similar tales to tell.

[Strange]

I don't know if you are aware of this or not but science was never instilled when humans decided to walk on earth but it was because of the creativity and intuition of certain individuals that dreamed and thought alike for which the average peers might have out cast him from the group but it is only because of such far fetch ideas about reality it has become possible for everyone to live and salvage the best of this generation.

 

 

To put it as politely as I can, that is complete and utter hogwash, nonsense and crap.

 

Science has never progressed by people making up stupid stories with no basis in reality.

 

Science works because people learn a lot about the subject, then make rigorous and detailed observations of the world about them, use these to build models. Then they test those models, discarding the the ones that don't work.

 

You have done NONE of those things.

[Ihcisphysicist]

History tells us that simple ideas quickly become complicated

 

 

 

It is very much eminent, that a simple idea could get complicated but eventually no matter how complicated it may be, we have always found a way to solve it or to deal with it. .

 

 

To put it as politely as I can, that is complete and utter hogwash, nonsense and crap.

 

Science has never progressed by people making up stupid stories with no basis in reality.

 

Science works because people learn a lot about the subject, then make rigorous and detailed observations of the world about them, use these to build models. Then they test those models, discarding the the ones that don't work.

 

You have done NONE of those things.

You think of science as something absolute and finite but i feel pity for people with such mentality because when the music stops and the real truth about everything will unveil one by one, at that time those ones hopelessly dependent on a system would idk what's gonna happen to them.

[Strange]

You think of science as something absolute and finite

 

 

Nonsense. I think of something infinitely interesting and productive that constantly tells us new and surprising things.

 

I just have no time for people who prefer to make up their own stories rather than making any effort to learn. Your laziness and arrogance is offensive to anyone who has actually studied and done science.

[dimreepr]

You think of science as something absolute and finite but i feel pity for people with such mentality because when the music stops and the real truth about everything will unveil one by one, at that time those ones hopelessly dependent on a system would idk what's gonna happen to them.

 

 

The ability to think outside the box is dependent on understanding what's inside the box.

[Ihcisphysicist]

 

 

Nonsense. I think of something infinitely interesting and productive that constantly tells us new and surprising things.

 

I just have no time for people who prefer to make up their own stories rather than making any effort to learn. Your laziness and arrogance is offensive to anyone who has actually studied and done science.

This would be my last one to you I promise.

If you have read thoroughly the entire spectrum of science then I admit that my intelligence is inferior to your's and all I speak is crap as much as you would want to have it. But if even you are well educated in some discipline then I guess its time for me to say go s*** your own s*** cause I don't give a S*** about your "Studied and done science", cause I've done myself some science too.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Ihcisphysicist

[dimreepr]

This would be my last one to you I promise.

If you have read thoroughly the entire spectrum of science then I admit that my intelligence is inferior to your's and all I speak is crap as much as you would want it to be. But if even you are well educated in some discipline then I guess its time for me to say go s*** your own s*** cause I don't give a S*** about your "Studied and done science", cause I've done myself some science too.

[Strange]

If you have read thoroughly the entire spectrum of science

 

 

Of course I haven't. What a stupid and irrelevant comment.

 

 

 

cause I've done myself some science too.

 

You have shown no evidence of that. You don't appear to have even a basic understanding of science or the scientific method.

[Mordred]

This forum welcomes new ideas but under some form of rigor and control. New ideas are great and wonderful. However those ideas need to have done scientific rigor to them. Otherwise its meaningless and pointless.

 

Most of the members on any forum has often had there own ideas on how something works etc. However when they work out the math or study the related science in proper detail more often than not they discover there ideas are wrong or poorly thought out.

 

 

Any model proposal undergoes rigourous examination and one of the steps to strengthen a model or idea is to find a rigourous way to explain the counter arguments to that model or idea.

 

In some sense posters countering your idea or model is doing you a favor.

 

They are supplying counter arguments so that you can cover those gaps. Without this aid any model would quickly be shown wrong.

 

If you want an example read any good arxiv paper that proposes a new way of looking at something. Note that these professional papers always include a comparison to other older ways of thinking or models and compares the advantages the new model offers over the old.

 

 

Too often we get posters who feel they have some new brilliant idea that only they understand. Yet when questioned we find they dont even have a basic understanding of the field they are discussing.

 

There typical response is much like Ive seen thus far this thread

!

Moderator Note

besides which this forum even though it is a Speculations forum has rules to adhere to. You can review these rules here

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/86720-guidelines-for-participating-in-speculations-discussions/#entry839842

 

 

Think of it this way. If a mere forum membership can poke holes into your idea or model that you cannot address.

 

How do you expect your model or idea to survive criticism by the professional scientific community?

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mordred

[swansont]

I thought that this was a speculation forum where people could discuss certain subjects and concepts that could still be at its infancy however as we get other people's insight and perspective, we are able to develop more ideas on the concept but sadly even in this trash bin forum, when a topic gets beyond the understandable norms of present science it is pinned down. Where else can we discuss on things and concepts from the farthest perspective of our brain.

 

 

You thought wrong. The speculations section is for exploring ideas that have some scientific basis, not a free-form, anything-goes bull session forum. The venue for that, typically, is a dormitory room at 2AM. Chemicals may be involved.

[Ihcisphysicist]

 

 

 

This forum welcomes new ideas but under some form of rigor and control. New ideas are great and wonderful. However those ideas need to have done scientific rigor to them. Otherwise its meaningless and pointless.

 

Most of the members on any forum has often had there own ideas on how something works etc. However when they work out the math or study the related science in proper detail more often than not they discover there ideas are wrong or poorly thought out.

 

 

Any model proposal undergoes rigourous examination and one of the steps to strengthen a model or idea is to find a rigourous way to explain the counter arguments to that model or idea.

 

In some sense posters countering your idea or model is doing you a favor.

 

They are supplying counter arguments so that you can cover those gaps. Without this aid any model would quickly be shown wrong.

 

If you want an example read any good arxiv paper that proposes a new way of looking at something. Note that these professional papers always include a comparison to other older ways of thinking or models and compares the advantages the new model offers over the old.

 

 

Too often we get posters who feel they have some new brilliant idea that only they understand. Yet when questioned we find they dont even have a basic understanding of the field they are discussing.

 

There typical response is much like Ive seen thus far this thread

!

Moderator Note

besides which this forum even though it is a Speculations forum has rules to adhere to. You can review these rules here

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/86720-guidelines-for-participating-in-speculations-discussions/#entry839842

 

 

Think of it this way. If a mere forum membership can poke holes into your idea or model that you cannot address.

 

How do you expect your model or idea to survive criticism by the professional scientific community.

True that!

Edited June 22, 2016 by Ihcisphysicist

[Sensei]

Ihcisphysicist, in other thread, by rejecting antimatter, and annihilation, you showed plentiful of ignorance.

 

I would suggest coming with questions like "how physicists know what they know in quantum physics"/"how to make antimatter","how to check whether particle has positive or negative charge","how to check particle is stable/not stable",etc,etc,

then you will learn that you can even see quantum particles on your own eyes in particle detectors like Cloud Chamber..

 

Prior gathering knowledge restrain from making you own speculations, based mostly on absence of knowledge in area you want to discuss..

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

I thought that this was a speculation forum where people could discuss certain subjects and concepts that could still be at its infancy however as we get other people's insight and perspective, we are able to develop more ideas on the concept but sadly even in this trash bin forum, when a topic gets beyond the understandable norms of present science it is pinned down. Where else can we discuss on things and concepts from the farthest perspective of our brain.

 

!

Moderator Note

First, this isn't a speculation, it's more of a suggestion, so that's where this will be moved to.

 

Second, we understand that you'd like to have a more free-wheeling, screw-the-rulebook type of discussion. It requires much less rigor, and pretends to offer a way to pierce the boundaries of mystery and move beyond what we already understand using intuition instead of evidence. It's much easier to guess than to actually know your subject well.

 

But didn't you come here to discuss science with people who know more than you do? Most of us did. That's what makes the site valuable, our knowledge, our attention to methodology, and being rigorous about our approach to scientific explanations. There are other science sites where you can say anything you want, and others can say anything they want back, and we decided we didn't like the way those discussions developed.

 

If all you have is a hunch, the best approach is to start a thread in Speculations, let us know it's just a hunch, and ask questions rather than make assertions. You really don't learn anything by making assertions without supporting them with evidence. As soon as you make them, that's the first thing other members ask for.

[swansont]

If you're just asking questions, you don't even need to be in speculations. But if you make assertions, you need to be able to back them up. And that's what is lacking.