Religion when it had real power!

[Tampitump]

Interestingly enough and as far as I can tell, that was not even Jesus' idea. Jesus made no reference to the notion that he had to die for humanity's original sin.[/url])

So what? This was all supposed to be God's plan right? So God's plans included the following:

 

1) Omnsicient and omnipotent - check

 

2) Create universe knowing abead of time everything that will happen - check

 

3) Purposely create two individuals without the knowledge of right and wrong - check

 

4) Tempt these humans with an attractive tree - check

 

5) Punish them for what I knew ahead of time they would do, and which they couldn't have possibly known the consequences of - check

 

6) Punish not only these two individuals for my own problems, but punish the rest of humanity for every generation to come - check

 

7) After freeing the Israelites, spend a great deal of time sending them on genocide missions doing my dirty deeds for me - check

 

8) After its all said and done, I'll stop being a psychopathic war lord and quit intervening in humans afairs. I'll stop torturing and killimg people in life, and I'll creat these two places called Heaven and Hell to send people to after they die - check

 

9) I still can't get over Adam's original sin, I still so desperately want to place that blame on every human being in the world. So, instead of just forgiving and letting it be (like any decent person would), I'll pretend to atone them by taking human shape and offering myself as a blood sacrifice - check

 

10) I'll do all this in the iron age middle eastern desert so that the only people who witness it will be ignorant desert people. I'll make the fate of humanity rest on this one event, but I will do it in such a way that the only attestation modern humans will have of this event is a bunch of botched, anonymous, ancient scriptures and no physical, empirical evidence - check

 

11) I will let the ones who don't believe it be consciously tortured in Hell for eternity after they die. Guys like Pat Roberston, Jerry Falwell, and Ted Haggard, those men can spend an eternity in paradise, while like Carl Sagan, Hitchens, and Einstein will fry for eternity - check

 

12) Remember that I'm all-perfect and knew ahead of time everything that would happen. This is all part of my perfect plan. I'm so perfect. You worship ME! Get that? Your life is for worshipping and serving ME! You WILL have no other gods before ME! I am EVERYTHING to you! You cannot live a good life without ME! You are inherently unworthy of ME! Get on your knees and beg me to save your soul! - check

 

I could go on and on. The God of Christianity is a vindictive war lord who is jealous and egotistical. He is an idiotic god who can't get even the most trivial shit right in his plan. He claims perfection and unlimited wisdom, yet he continuously brings himself down to a human level and engages in their barbarism (instigating it most of the time). Nothing should be worshipped, especially not this piece of shit.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Tampitump

[dimreepr]

So what? This was all supposed to be God's plan right? So God's plans included the following:

 

1) Omnsicient and omnipotent - check

 

2) Create universe knowing abead of time everything that will happen - check

 

3) Purposely create two individuals without the knowledge of right and wrong - check

 

4) Tempt these humans with an attractive tree - check

 

5) Punish them for what I knew ahead of time they would do, and which they couldn't have possibly known the consequences of - check

 

6) Punish not only these two individuals for my own problems, but punish the rest of humanity for every generation to come - check

 

7) After freeing the Israelites, spend a great deal of time sending them on genocide missions doing my dirty deeds for me - check

 

8) After its all said and done, I'll stop being a psychopathic war lord and quit intervening in humans afairs. I'll stop torturing and killimg people in life, and I'll creat these two places called Heaven and Hell to send people to after they die - check

 

9) I still can't get over Adam's original sin, I still so desperately want to place that blame on every human being in the world. So, instead of just forgiving and letting it be (like any decent person would), I'll pretend to atone them by taking human shape and offering myself as a blood sacrifice - check

 

10) I'll do all this in the iron age middle eastern desert so that the only people who witness it will be ignorant desert people. I'll make the fate of humanity rest on this one event, but I will do it in such a way that the only attestation modern humans will have of this event is a bunch of botched, anonymous, ancient scriptures and no physical, empirical evidence - check

 

11) I will let the ones who don't believe it be consciously tortured in Hell for eternity after they die. Guys like Pat Roberston, Jerry Falwell, and Ted Haggard, those men can spend an eternity in paradise, while like Carl Sagan, Hitchens, and Einstein will fry for eternity - check

 

12) Remember that I'm all-perfect and knew ahead of time everything that would happen. This is all part of my perfect plan. I'm so perfect. You worship ME! Get that? Your life is for worshipping and serving ME! You WILL have no other gods before ME! I am EVERYTHING to you! You cannot live a good life without ME! You are inherently unworthy of ME! Get on your knees and beg me to save your soul! - check

 

 

When you put it like that, there seems little incentive to follow such an autocratic despot, let alone change deeply held religious beliefs; perhaps the threat of an unseen, unknowable sky monster could persuaded an otherwise intelligent populace to place their blind faith in, that seems unlikely in the extreme.

 

Let us instead consider the fact, that when initially introduced (when the message was understood) it spread far and wide and persuaded multiple societies, religions and cultures to throw away what they knew in favour of that message

 

The question then becomes, were they stupid and gullible or do we not understand what they did?

[Memammal]

@ Tampitump: I was merely pointing out that it is possible that Paul, John (not of Beatles fame) and the rest got it entirely wrong in assuming (and/or falsely spreading the word) that Jesus died on the cross in order to atone for humanity's sin. The entire doctrine surrounding original sin and atonement is fundamentally flawed while the Dead Sea Scrolls painted an entire different story about an Essene preacher (Teacher of Righteousness) with remarkable parallels (and parables) to what Jesus allegedly taught.

 

No need to be critical of God's (so-called) plan...I don't think there is such a God, or that such a God (or Jesus) had anything to do with it...all just based on ancient Hebrew folklore written down many centuries later and adapted as see fit by the various sects that followed...further developed by the authors of the scriptures contained in the NT...then came Irenaeus, Augustine & fellow Romans and the rest is history...

Edited August 24, 2016 by Memammal

[Tampitump]

The only thing I'm saying is that the Christian God, if he were omniscient, certainly created a sinister plan. That is, if Christianity is true. I can't find an instance in the Bible where the Christian God is not like a tyrannical war lord and dictator who displays a very jealous, insecure, and vindictive character, just like the archetypal dictator. It is easy to see that these ancient gods were modelled after rulers like this. They have the same qualities.

 

If this god existed l, I would still have the same opinion of him.

[dimreepr]

If we take god out of the equation then my question has an obvious answer.

[Willie71]

When you put it like that, there seems little incentive to follow such an autocratic despot, let alone change deeply held religious beliefs; perhaps the threat of an unseen, unknowable sky monster could persuaded an otherwise intelligent populace to place their blind faith in, that seems unlikely in the extreme.

 

Let us instead consider the fact, that when initially introduced (when the message was understood) it spread far and wide and persuaded multiple societies, religions and cultures to throw away what they knew in favour of that message

 

The question then becomes, were they stupid and gullible or do we not understand what they did?

Nomadic goat herders were trying to explain their world, since they didn't know about things like science. For a long time, the message was controlled by the priests who omitted the parts inconvenient to sell the story.

[dimreepr]

Nomadic goat herders were trying to explain their world, since they didn't know about things like science. For a long time, the message was controlled by the priests who omitted the parts inconvenient to sell the story.

 

 

How do you know?

[Willie71]

How do you know?

Is this a serious question?

[dimreepr]

Of course it is, just because you're description is true now doesn't make it true when it began.

[Tampitump]

 

 

How do you know?

It's more about what is more reasonable to believe than how someone "knows" something. We know a great deal about the culture and worldview of the ancient hebrews (and other surrounding cultures) through their writings and stories. Just reading the bible reveals how little these people knew about how the universe is. Since we understand how human societies developed, and how/when our scientific knowledge changed/increased, it can be rationally deduced that the ancient peoples who originated these biblical tales were but primitive tribal people who hadn't the first lick of scientific insight into the universe. Using occam's razor, the above explanation is preferable to the explanation that the supernatural tales of the bible are true. The former requires fewer (if less fantastic) assumptions involving examples that we know to exist in the real world. The latter explanation is entirely unjustified.

[dimreepr]

When you put it like that, there seems little incentive to follow such an autocratic despot, let alone change deeply held religious beliefs; perhaps the threat of an unseen, unknowable sky monster could persuaded an otherwise intelligent populace to place their blind faith in, that seems unlikely in the extreme.

Let us instead consider the fact, that when initially introduced (when the message was understood) it spread far and wide and persuaded multiple societies, religions and cultures to throw away what they knew in favour of that message

The question then becomes, were they stupid and gullible or do we not understand what they did?

 

[Willie71]

Of course it is, just because you're description is true now doesn't make it true when it began.

Please explain.

[dimreepr]

Please explain.

 

 

Please see my posts #231 as here and #252 see above:

 

Neither did you, yes you know about these things but it's all too easy for us to assume intellectual superiority whilst not understanding any of it. For instance I know how to use a computer and I know the underlying principles of how it works but I don't understand it well enough to build one from scratch, knowledge doesn't automatically result in understanding.

All of the trappings and trinkets of our modern world doesn't make us smarter than the humans of, say, 2,000 years ago and just because we don't understand what they wrote down in a book doesn't mean they didn't nor does it mean we can't.

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by dimreepr

[freekundli]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

We all will miss you.