Timelessness of God

[Ultimate Infinity]

I know that most of you here do not believe that God exists but for a second let's assume He does. There is a question that I have been pondering lately. It is said that God is timeless and exists outside of time. Therefore everything is at once for Him. He doesn't act, think, or speak because there is no moment after the other. Think about it without time there is no then and later so technically He created time at the same time He created me but that doesn't work to say because He didn't create them at the same time because there is no time. See how this is tough? This does show how God is never changing though because everything exists at once so there is no change even when there is. I would live to hear your guys opinions on this.

[ajb]

I would live to hear your guys opinions on this.

I don't see that we can say anything - you want to disucss things that are outside of science. I think you should focus not on questions of religion like this, but rather questions you stand a chance of getting reasonable answers to.

 

Or you should ask your priest - I am sure he can give you the 'party line' on this one.

[dimreepr]

I know that most of you here do not believe that God exists but for a second let's assume He does. There is a question that I have been pondering lately. It is said that God is timeless and exists outside of time. Therefore everything is at once for Him. He doesn't act, think, or speak because there is no moment after the other. Think about it without time there is no then and later so technically He created time at the same time He created me but that doesn't work to say because He didn't create them at the same time because there is no time. See how this is tough? This does show how God is never changing though because everything exists at once so there is no change even when there is. I would live to hear your guys opinions on this.

 

 

That seems to make god superfluous.

[Ultimate Infinity]

 

 

That seems to make god superfluous.

That's not saying he has no affect or doesn't do anything it's just saying that he doesn't change how we change from moment to moment

[Phi for All]

To me, this is like the "What's beyond the universe?" question. We make all these observations and experiments that show us the observable universe seems infinite, and performs within the parameters of our best explanations regarding its development, and every bit of evidence shows us that this universe is all there is.

 

Yet people keep wanting to invent beings that can break the laws of physics, ignore time and the spatial dimensions, and basically do anything we can dream up because they know everything and can do anything they want. All the really obviously pertinent questions are answered with a blanket wave of the magic wand; God can do anything, even design physical laws that he himself gets to break when he feels like it.

 

Question any of this and you obviously don't understand the mind of god. His Ways work mysteriously when they need to, they only become clearer to believers (who never get a reasoned explanation), and they always encourage you to stop questioning things you should take on faith.

 

"Outside of time" there would be no movement, so we have to invoke the omnipotence clause so god isn't controlled by what we understand.

[John Cuthber]

I know that most of you here do not believe that God exists but for a second let's assume He does.

Which one?

[dimreepr]

That's not saying he has no affect or doesn't do anything it's just saying that he doesn't change how we change from moment to moment

 

 

What affect does it have? What does it do? And what makes you think it's male?

[Ultimate Infinity]

Which one?

Catholic

 

 

What affect does it have? What does it do? And what makes you think it's male?

Well the effect is you know all of existence and He does this by simply being and I do t think God is male I don't think He has any gender but traditionally we just refer to God as He not necessarily male though

[dimreepr]

Well I did ask about the affect and you haven't said what it does, but OK; simply being is attainable by all, so what makes god special?

Edited July 6, 2016 by dimreepr

[John Cuthber]

Catholic

 

What's wrong with the other several thousand?

[ajb]

What's wrong with the other several thousand?

I would say nothing. However, it is clear that our friend is trying to understand several passages of the bible that discuss god's relation with time. This question has been the bane of several christian philosophers.

 

It seems to me that if we were to take the strict view that god is outside time, that is he does not experience time and sees all at once, then he cannot play an active role in the Universe. Everything that has happened and everything that will happen is already known to god - and he cannot change that. God cannot make good things happen nor can he stop bad things. Indeed, neither can we as freewill is lost. So the whole idea of god outside of time does not sit well with other aspects of christian philosophy.

 

This is only one of the problems - how many movies or book series do you know that are 100% consistent?

[John Cuthber]

 

This is only one of the problems - how many movies or book series do you know that are 100% consistent?

Well, according to this, only two movies have over 400 errors in them

http://www.moviemistakes.com/most/continuity

(The Birds and Apocalypse now)

and there are over 400 documented errors in the Bible.

http://bibviz.com/

 

So the simple answer would appear to be most books and films do better.

Of course most movies and books are shorter than the Bible so it's not really fair.

But lets just pick one- The Lord of the Rings. The book is about as thick as the Bible.

And (perhaps more importantly) many of the readers and viewers will have been obsessive enough to spot any errors.

Well,according to this

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1778

it has 265 mistakes.

So it seems that the word of JRR Tolkein is a bit more reliable than the word of God.

 

That's especially embarassing for the Lord, given that the Bible went through a fairly vigorous re-edit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

 

Of course, the idea of a God outside of time and yet us having free will is one of the fundamental contradictions of the Christian faith.

My personal favourite is the internal inconsistency of omnipotence

- can God set himself a task he can't accomplish?-

but there are plenty to go round.

[Ultimate Infinity]

What's wrong with the other several thousand?

No one said there was anything wrong with the other gods I personally think that God can be praised in infinite holy ways

[ajb]

Well, according to this, only two movies have over 400 errors in them

This may just be a point of definion - by many films have small continuity errors. For example, glasses of drink going up and down in a scence.

 

But this is not really the point. The bible has some inconsistencies and some logical nightmares - the question of a timeless god is one of them and the one that our friend is thinking about.

 

And on that, what ever resolution you come to there is no way to prove it. It is like trying to fill the gaps in any book - you may have some ideas but it can only ever be a mental exersise.

 

 

No one said there was anything wrong with the other gods

Are you sure? Doesn't the bible warn against other gods?

 

Deuteronomy 8:19 for example.

Edited July 7, 2016 by ajb

[swansont]

What's wrong with the other several thousand?

 

 

!

Moderator Note

Let's stick to the topic under discussion, please.