What is God?

[Sorcerer]

I'm listening, please explain your God to me, you never know, you might convert me.

[Strange]

See the thread above yours: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66260-defining-god/

[Phi for All]

The title seems more comprehensive, but the OP suggests I shouldn't participate if I don't have a god.

 

I can answer "What is god?" though. I think god is the ultimate end product of Imagining Things That Aren't There, something that serves humans well in protecting ourselves in a proactive instead of a reactive manner. It probably started by imagining tigers in the shadows, and developed into many unseen entities that influenced fragile early human existence. God is a wishful thought of comfort and stability, like orphans dreaming of parents who are unimaginably wonderful.

[Moontanman]

I'm listening, please explain your God to me, you never know, you might convert me.

 

 

Shouldn't your question be better worded as "What is a god"? The way you ask it seems to predispose there is such a thing..

[DrmDoc]

If real, God is that omnipotent entity who is far too busy managing the universe to give a damn or a hot fart in hell about those subatomic particles called humanity and particularly that infinitesimal, theoretical particle called DrmDoc.

Edited July 9, 2016 by DrmDoc

[iNow]

What is God?

Whatever you want it to be and whatever mirrors your self-image, apparently.

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/51/21533.abstract

[EdEarl]

If there is one, it must be the programmer who created this simulation we call the Universe.

[Sorcerer]

See the thread above yours: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66260-defining-god/

I read that one, it's good but no where near complete.

 

For example, it is possible for a God to intervene in the universe and still be indistinguishable from our scientific evidence. One such way would be simply if every time there is intervention time and it's memory/records for us are changed too, so we're unaware.

 

Another missed type is the simple pantheistic God, which is just the universe really, not necessarily universally conscious and impersonal. Then there's multitudes of adaptions on that.

 

I'm asking as an ignostic because maybe someone can make the question make sense. To clarify, the pantheistic God I mention makes no sense to me as it is indistinguishable from the universe. As an analogy, calling an apple an flurgenblruster and then arguing about its properties outside of it being an apple, and worrying about the existence of a flurgenblruster, is just semantic masturbation.

 

 

Shouldn't your question be better worded as "What is a god"? The way you ask it seems to predispose there is such a thing..

Either distinction is fine. There's a word in the dictionary "God". I'm looking for a better or cogent definition.

If there is one, it must be the programmer who created this simulation we call the Universe.

Simulation is another possibility overlooked in the stickied post. And also a way that God could intervene without our knowledge. However it fails on infinite regress. Either we're a non simulated product of a physical universe or at some point a God is. Which makes that Gods God a simple pantheistic one. However it is possible that this is an argument I create from knowledge of this simulation and up one level it makes no sense. Interestingly (for me lol, I dunno about you, maybe I'm boring you), this is also where the traditional God of the Abraham religions fails to make sense, if God created our universe, what created God, why is it necessary to extend the level of creation up 1, but necessary to stop before 2, why even begin? Also if the Abraham God, created this universe like a simulation, it would be entirely possible for the Bible to be completely true (or even true as the fundamentalist creationist warp it), any conflict you want to bring up with empirical evidence from science can just be explained away by saying that is how the program is measured by us, but the program was written so that the events play out differently from what we can measure.

 

The problem of infinite regress can be addressed from a thermodynamic stand point, taking heat as the energy which is needed to produce work and thus run the simulation, we would gradually decrease the systems within the system to a point which approaches absolute 0, even if the energy is used successively more efficiently allowing time to simulated at a rate which we within the simulation perceive as normal, but those outside perceive as slower. Calculating the series to infinity, ensures there is a point where the cannot be another simulation. So it should be a finite set. (correct me if I'm wrong, my physics and math are rather basic.) This is much like possible life continuing to survive in a universe approaching a heat death end point. But again this could just be an argument created by me from the constraints of my simulation, and has no merit the next level, or even any arbitrary levels up.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Sorcerer

[John Cuthber]

Five points in scrabble.

[Memammal]

Another missed type is the simple pantheistic God, which is just the universe really, not necessarily universally conscious and impersonal. Then there's multitudes of adaptions on that.

 

I'm asking as an ignostic because maybe someone can make the question make sense. To clarify, the pantheistic God I mention makes no sense to me as it is indistinguishable from the universe.

 

Either distinction is fine. There's a word in the dictionary "God". I'm looking for a better or cogent definition.

I suggest that you take the time and read these two articles:

God is Reality Personified, Not a Person

SEP: Pantheism

 

Consider the likelihood that the universe (as an existing, infinite "block universe"), evolution (natural selection being dependent on the interaction of genes and the environment) and the unfolding of each of our and other creatures' lives (our behaviour being determined by the interaction of our genes and our environments) could be deterministic, or quasi-deterministic (for reasons that are given in the before-mentioned brackets)...and then rethink the position of a pantheistic god.

[Memammal]

"For no particular thing, not even the smallest, can have happened otherwise than in accordance with the common nature and its reason." - Chrysippus

 

“What comes, when it comes, will be what it is.” - Alberto Caeiro

 

"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

"Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."

"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths." - Carl Sagan

 

"But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair."

"It is very difficult to elucidate this cosmic religious feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it. The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it".

"In essence, my religion consists of a humble admiration for this illimitable superior spirit that reveals itself in the slight details that we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds."​

"The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe. It does not lead us to take the step of fashioning a god-like being in our own image-a personage who makes demands of us and who takes an interest in us as individuals. There is in this neither a will nor a goal, nor a must, but only sheer being."

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein

Edited July 10, 2016 by Memammal

[Raider5678]

Ok. A look from a different point of view is that God is an all knowing all loving god, sitting in heaven watching and waiting for his time. He sees the future and the past, he was forever and will be forever. When his time comes the book of revelations will start. After that,a new heaven and a new earth will be created, and all peoples who's name was recorded in the book of life get to go to heaven.

 

And for me mammals sake, I hope one day his name will sit in the book of life, so that he avoids the suffering that will ensue.

[Externet]

Multiplying fear times ignorance yields the product called god, expressed in imaginary numbers.

[Memammal]

When his time comes the book of revelations will start. After that,a new heaven and a new earth will be created, and all peoples who's name was recorded in the book of life get to go to heaven.

And for me mammals sake, I hope one day his name will sit in the book of life, so that he avoids the suffering that will ensue.

Seriously dude, you believe all of that...and we all have to hold thumbs that our names are written in the book of life..? [Facepalm]

[Raider5678]

Seriously dude, you believe all of that...and we all have to hold thumbs that our names are written in the book of life..? [Facepalm]

First, you don't have to hold thumbs.

Second, let's not turn this into a debate about if there is a God because that's not what the op wants.

[Memammal]

^ First - From the way you described it, it seemed like your name is either in that book or not...which is reminiscent of wishful thinking (or holding thumbs)?

Second - That was not what I was doing; I was questioning your (perception of) God.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Memammal

[Moontanman]

Ok. A look from a different point of view is that God is an all knowing all loving god, sitting in heaven watching and waiting for his time. He sees the future and the past, he was forever and will be forever. When his time comes the book of revelations will start. After that,a new heaven and a new earth will be created, and all peoples who's name was recorded in the book of life get to go to heaven.

 

And for me mammals sake, I hope one day his name will sit in the book of life, so that he avoids the suffering that will ensue.

 

You are predisposing a particular god, one that is trivially falsified or an immoral sadist or possibly just doesn't give a flying flip about humans...

 

The concept of god isn't limited to the Islamic Judeo Christian god, while I am not even sure what a god is, it is reasonable to say the idea of god is pretty much a personal thing with all believers varying their belief to suit their personal needs.

 

To answer the question "what is god" you would first have to define the term god then we can possibly get a handle on the answer to the op's question...

Edited July 19, 2016 by Moontanman

[Sorcerer]

Ok. A look from a different point of view is that God is an all knowing all loving god, sitting in heaven watching and waiting for his time. He sees the future and the past, he was forever and will be forever. When his time comes the book of revelations will start. After that,a new heaven and a new earth will be created, and all peoples who's name was recorded in the book of life get to go to heaven.

 

And for me mammals sake, I hope one day his name will sit in the book of life, so that he avoids the suffering that will ensue.

What's the point of existing if all existence has already happened. If God knows everything he knows who he created and is going to suffer. How is it loving to create something in the knowledge that you will inflict suffering on it?

 

Also why does God have a gender?

[Gilga-flesh]

Which god?

 

Different cultures have/had very different type of entities which all got translated to gods. If you want a definition you have to observe the common base for all these entities.

Which is a degree of immortality and a degree of supernatural power beyond what is ascribed to humans by the culture which acknowledges said god entity.

 

The Judeo/Christian/Islamic God is of course an extreme example since he maxes out at both requirements. However that works against him in my aspect. Cause even though you can't prove whether a god exists or doesn't exist, it's easy to find reasons not to consider an omnipotent god worthy of worship just by observing the world.

[Sorcerer]

You can't prove God doesn't exist, only because that's not how evidence works.

[Gilga-flesh]

You can't prove God doesn't exist, only because that's not how evidence works.

 

Didn't intend to suggest otherwise. But it is quite possible to prove the existence of something. Especially very big and powerful things like elephants and suns. Though not gods it seems.

[Overthinker301]

A manifestation of our ego. Our desires, wants. We create this God in our heads who is this perfect and powerful person, something which humans crave to some extent. We imagine a perfect paradise with no problems or flaws, which we are flawed and face troubles throughout life. Basically, a blanket for our flaws and insecurities.

 

Don't get me wrong, its possible there is a god, but if there was we obviously have had no contact as there is no proof we have. I hope there is a god, as it would suck to just stop existing. But I believe I only prove my own point in the end.

 

Honestly, I try to stay away from religion and just live life.

[Gilga-flesh]

I hope there is a god, as it would suck to just stop existing. But I believe I only prove my own point in the end.

Honestly, I try to stay away from religion and just live life.

 

Does a belief in immortality of the spirit require a God?

[Raxsus]

Christians claim God is omnipresent: Everywhere. For this to be true, God has to exist within every elementary particle throughout all of the near infinite galaxies we have discovered; in addition to existing between them.

 

However, it is believed by Christians that God created everything. If God is confined to the realm of matter and motion, and is an incredibly small particle that forms together to create the universe, then we are just a bit of God.

 

Lastly, Christians believe God is super-natural, above matter and motion (its creator), but found throughout it. The particle explanation only serves to illustrate the pervasiveness of an omnipresent entity, but it isn't the omnipresent entity; just its form.

[Strange]

 

Does a belief in immortality of the spirit require a God?

 

No. See, for example, Buddhism.