SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 Strange asked me why I believe in Jesus.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 I don't think we are in Kansas any more. Indeed... Simon, can you please get back to the subject at hand? You seen to just be linking to random symbols - if you want to discuss symbology then please start a new thread.
Strange Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Strange asked me why I believe in Jesus. Sorry, you misunderstood me. I meant I was interested why people don't accept the evidence for things like evolution and prefer their own (baseless) beliefs.
SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 Sorry, you misunderstood me. I meant I was interested why people don't accept the evidence for things like evolution and prefer their own (baseless) beliefs. What to you mean by baseless?
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 What to you mean by baseless? There is no evidence for creationism. There are no claims that can be scientifically tested. To beleive in creationism is baseless.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 I don't believe in creationism? Great - so what has this thread been about?
granpa Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) a-pre-rna-world-genetic-code-with-only-a-single-but-reversible-nucleobase Edited July 26, 2016 by granpa
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 The emergence of life? Well, that is not what you started with, but okay. But I get the impression - and please correctly me if I am wrong - that you are suggesting that the emergence of life was not natural?
Strange Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 The emergence of life? Rather than continuing to dodge around the science, how about we turn this around: What is your view on how life came about?
Phi for All Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 ! Moderator Note SimonFunnell, the topic, even after you amended it, is still basically asking where science feels Intelligent Design fails scientifically. Please stop introducing extraneous arguments and bringing up topics outside this subject. I've removed the last posts because they had zero to do with the topic. People are trying to have a discussion with you, and you're making it very difficult. Please stop. And don't feel any need to respond to this note in thread. That's what the Report Post feature is for.
SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 People are trying to have a discussion with you, and you're making it very difficult. If I am making things difficult, please accept my sincerest apologies. However, I too feel the same, that other people are making it very difficult. If we both feel this way, why don't we make it easy instead? Like before getting into subjective opinions which amongst us may differ, lets focus on the objective facts that we agree on. Once we have the objective facts agreed, we can then move onto subjective opinions, I really believe this would help.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Rather than answer a moderator note - which is generally not advised - just get on and make your case. Can you tell me if I have misunderstood you so far? In particular, you are suggesting that the origin of life is not natural?
SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 First off, before me suggesting anything, can we please find the correct language to use in talking about the matter. You know, sorry to go over it again, do you agree with the following statement: Did the universe at some point create life. If you don't agree, suggest other language and I will consider your proposal. Surely we can agree on something as simple as this?
Strange Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Did the universe at some point create life. Let's say yes to avoid any further digressions. Can we now discuss either the science (which you apparently don't want to) or your opinions regarding the origin of live.
SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 So just to confirm, the universe has the power, or the capability, to create. It has creative power.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Did the universe at some point create life. In essence yes - life developed in the Universe and we think via natural and not supernatural processes. The word 'create' may not be the best choice.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 So just to confirm, the universe has the power, or the capability, to create. It has creative power. Strange choices of words here... the Universe is everything and life can be found in the Universe. Do you want to suggest another word? Life emerged maybe better - we want to avoid the suggestion of a creator.
Strange Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 So just to confirm, the universe has the power, or the capability, to create. It has creative power. As long as you realise you are using "creative power" in a purely metaphorical sense, not in any scientific sense, then please carry on.
granpa Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Life emerged from lifelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence is a process whereby larger entities, patterns, and regularities arise through interactions among smaller or simpler entities that themselves do not exhibit such properties. Emergence is central in theories of integrative levels and of complex systems. For instance, the phenomenon of life as studied in biology is an emergent property of chemistry and psychological phenomena emerge from the neurobiological phenomena of living things. Likewise, economic and legal phenomena emerge from psychology.
SimonFunnell Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 I am not sure that is the right word, emerge seems to suggest something rising up out of something, which somehow paints the picture of cell composing itself on its own accord rather than a result of other factors bringing it into being.
ajb Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 I am not sure that is the right word, emerge seems to suggest something rising up out of something, which somehow paints the picture of cell composing itself on its own accord rather than a result of other factors bringing it into being. Emerge is the standard langauge here - in this context it means 'come into be'. The word 'create' suggests more, it suggests purpose and a creator.
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