Scientific reasons for me not having a girlfriend?

[Tampitump]

If you've had little experience even talking to women, the last thing you need is friends focusing on sex with them. You should focus on having a productive conversation with women. It sounds like you don't think women could find you interesting, which isn't a productive mindset. Even if a girl shows interest, you question why and think there must be something wrong with her.

 

It also causes you to compare what you think women want (the smile on your face, the good person to talk to) with what women actually respond to (the things the other guys are doing). This seems like a reasonable plan to you, but in reality you're already convinced none of the women are going to be attracted to the smile on your good-person-to-talk-to face. You're already prepared to lose out to a guy you probably think isn't as nice as you are, and that also leads you to question the women as well. You end up with a horrible impression of everybody, including yourself.

 

 

Since this isn't something visible to anybody you're just having a conversation with, I would suggest it's addition to your "lack of desirability" is in your mind (which doesn't make it any easier to deal with). This is another example of you pre-judging your opportunities. You're convinced that she won't find you interesting because eventually she might see you with your shirt off, so when the fuse is lit, you're putting it out partly yourself, and your opportunity fizzles.

First of all, and this is the last time I will explain this, I'm not looking for dating/love advice. I'm raising this as an objective scientific case that I wish to understand scientifically. This is not a "what am I doing wrong? Help me get a girl!" discussion.

 

And yes, you are correct in saying that I don't think a girl could find me interesting. That has already been established and is not the question of this investigation. That's already a given. What I'm getting at is what is the scientific model I can build to explain all of it? I wouldn't go so far as to say that something would have to be wrong with her if she expressed interst in me, though that is to my mind one of the most plausible propositions here and I tend to think that truly is the case. I cannot conceive of any woman who, given my sheer level of undesirability and horrible traits, could be attracted to me romantically/sexually and still be, herself, fully sound of mind or body. There would have to be another evolutionary-based explanation to account why she would feel that way given all we know about sexual selection and mating in the animal kingdom. It would be completely antithetical to the prevailing model.

The Pectus Excavatum IS visable. I have a sever case of it. Its worse than the typical cases you normally see. I've had corrective sugery on mine twice. Once in 1995 and once in 2009. Mine went untreated through pubrety after the first procedure and ended up concaving worse than before. As a result my backbone and rib cage developed around it. I have terribly severe back curvature/arch, and ribs that flare. This, put together with my recessed chest make my body look as though I'm pot-bellied and hump-backed.

 

It also restricts my respiratory function, making me short-winded and unable to exercise or play sports. I think, just judging from evolutionary terms, nature would select against my genes since they are staggeringly defective, both in terms of the physical and mental because both of them are bad. This likely explains why females are not only unintersted in me, but largely hostile to the idea of me. This is kind of my pet hypothesis. It makes perfect sense in evolutionary terms and fits perfectly within the framework. What do you guys think?

Edited July 30, 2016 by Tampitump

[iNow]

Sounds like you've been dealt a tough hand, but they're still your cards to play.

 

We could talk about evolutionary tendencies and explanations for why many seek genetically fit healthy partners or sometimes avoid mating with those showing outward signs of immune distress, but none of that IMO really matters here.

 

We make the best of what we've got and the opportunities we receive often begin with our own self-image and how we feel about ourselves. The science and evolutionary angle is a distraction from a deeper truth.

 

We must first love ourselves before others can join with us in that love.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by iNow

[Tampitump]

Sounds like you've been dealt a tough hand, but they're still your cards to play.

 

We could talk about evolutionary tendencies and explanations for why many seek genetically fit healthy partners or sometimes avoid mating with those showing outward signs of immune distress, but none of that IMO really matters here.

 

We make the best of what we've got and the opportunities we receive often begin with our own self-image and how we feel about ourselves. The science and evolutionary angle is a distraction from a deeper truth.

 

We must first love ourselves before others can join with us in that love.

 

 

I'm not self-deprecating here. I'm perfectly fine and happy with my situation. I'm just looking at this objectively to lay out the facts. Its not about self-hate or self-love. I wasn't meaning to make this a thread about venting my problems. I don't see this as a problem anymore really. I just thought my situation was very unique and unusual and wanted to try to place it into scientific/evolutionary framework.

When I say something that seems to be self-denigrating, just know that I'm being objective. Like when I say there is likely no female who would find me romantically/sexually attractive save for one who is not, herself, alright in the head, I'm not being self-denigrating or hyperbolic. I'm saying this as an objective observation. Judging by every single experience I've had with women (without exception), there is no question they want absolutely nothing to do with me even in the most minute sense. They don't even want to wait on me at a restaurant. No joke, I've literally been to restaurants with friends wherein the waitress will address all my friends problems, refill their beverages several times, etc. and never once refill my drink or ask if I need anything. Its THAT BAD. lol.

 

It totally doesn't bother me anymore, which is why I'm able to talk about it so candidly. I've fully come to terms with it. I get it... Under no circumstances whatsoever am I to ever touch a woman, that's fine with me. I think never experiencing things like sex or having experienced women being attracted to me makes it easier for someone like me to get past it and move on. I'm an adult now and have a life to get on with.

 

So please stop trying to turn this into a "dating/romance advice" thread. I know it seems like that's what I'm fishing for, but I'm really (like I've said a billion times by now) just trying to use my case as an example to put into a scientific explanation. That's it.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Tampitump

[iNow]

We consciously and unconsciously seek to maximize the health of our children and take shortcuts when seeking/finding mates who may help with that or maximize our chances.

 

Those whi do this better and who express more desirable characteristics tend to outreproduce and have more mating opportunities than those who do this worse or who express fewer of those commonly desirable characteristics.

 

Seems straight forward to me. Maybe you can clarify where there's still uncertainty, need to elaborate, or desire to further understand?

[Tampitump]

We consciously and unconsciously seek to maximize the health of our children and take shortcuts when seeking/finding mates who may help with that or maximize our chances.

 

Those whi do this better and who express more desirable characteristics tend to outreproduce and have more mating opportunities than those who do this worse or who express fewer of those commonly desirable characteristics.

 

Seems straight forward to me. Maybe you can clarify where there's still uncertainty, need to elaborate, or desire to further understand?

It would be very hard to elaborate on all of them because many of my problems begin all the way back in childhood. As far as I remember, girls always showed negative reactions towards me, even when I was young and naive. Outside of my obvious problems, there is this realm of mystery about it. I think those negative reactions I've always gotten from girls can be attributable to my looks. I also think my personality and the sound of my voice accounts for much of it too. I've been told by people who are my "friends" (if I can call them that) that I'm not a very likable person because I come off as not intellectual or awkward. I'm not sure what this means.

 

It think what it boils down to is that the sum total of my traits and genes are undesirable and therefore nature selects against them. The female prefers the good-looking, vital, man. He doesn't necessarily have to be smart, but he must possess some type of wit in certain types of situations. Another thing is that, aside from my body being deformed and oddly-shaped, I'm very frail and weak-looking which is not conducive to what a healthy female would be attracted to.

 

I once had roommates who were both fit, strong, men who trained/worked out and they had girl after girl all over them. It was actually a science-geek's dream living with those guys because its just fascinating to watch natural selection and evolutionary theory at work. You could predict it right down the line. The girls were always very good looking, healthy and vibrant, they were super attracted to the men, and they looked at me with pity and disgust whenever I'd walk into the room. I actually enjoyed living in that house because its amazing to watch just how accurate natural selection and sexual selection theory is. How they would melt over every little wise crack/joke the guy made and were so ready to jump in bed with him, but wished I would go roll down a hill of razor blades into the ocean. lol

 

I also think that attraction has to initiate somewhere. It starts with sight in 99.99% of cases. A female has to see the body of the guy and see his overall look and become sexually attracted to him. I think that this problem is the single firewall that makes the whole process a non-starter for me. There are more problems with how I look and my overall essence that there's just no way a female could have this sort of desire for me upon seeing me without some serious issues of her own. The only feeling my sight could possibly provoke is that of repulsion and unease. Again, I don't mean to self-deprecate.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Tampitump

[iNow]

Perhaps looks seem so important because you're still so young. There's more there, though.

 

Straight talk: Yes, good looks help. Yes, it's tough if you didn't win the genetic lottery. Of course.

 

You can, however, take steps to maximize your looks (exercise, eat better, dress well).

 

You can, however, take steps to maximize other attractive traits like security, financial well being, and social status (hell, just look at Sheldon Adelson or Roger Ailes, FFS...they're GD bridge trolls yet getting crazy laid on the regular with categorically and immensely hot women...clearly proving that looks are just one piece in a much larger puzzle).

 

More to the point, though...You can take steps to become less awkward, more comfortable, and better connected to people who share similar interests and passions (unless, of course, you give up on yourself and settle for apathy and defeatism).

 

Honestly, mate. I know you want to discuss the science, and that's cool (though again, it's not exactly clear what else really requires further illumination), but underlying your posts I (perhaps mistakenly, I admit) sense that you're pretty busy feeling sorry for yourself.

 

Tough words, and I don't know you from Adam. I could be totally talking with my head up my ass right now, but girls and guys...people in general...and probably you too...tend to prefer being around people who are comfortable and confident in themselves (not arrogant and douchey, but confident and comfortable).

 

If you're feeling sorry for yourself, how can you expect anyone else to feel any differently? If you feel "less than" or "not as good" as those around you, how can you expect anyone else to see the goodness inside you, the kindness you have to offer, and the warmth and joy you have to share?

 

Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm just some random stranger on a random Internet forum, but I do genuinely wish you well and want any suffering or loneliness you may be experiencing to evaporate. The fact that we exist at all in this vast cosmos is a pretty awe inspiring spectacular fact that brings perspective to most of the day-to-day irrelevancies.

 

No sense kicking ourselves when we're down. It certainly doesn't help us to stand back up any quicker. So stand up, breath, and just be. Most of the rest tends to work itself out.

Edited July 31, 2016 by iNow

[Tampitump]

 

You can, however, take steps to maximize your looks (exercise, eat better, dress well).

 

 

Like I said before, the PE makes it impossible to work out. I have complications with breathing and pulmonary functions/restricted pathways etc. I tried to go mountain biking with one of my "friends" this summer and had to stop 10 minutes in because I was about to completely kill over. My body is just not shaped correctly to handle much work out/sport.

 

Besides working out is pointless. My body is just too deformed. It would only look comical if I built muscles. I look better now than if I worked out, honestly.

 

I know it sounds like I'm throwing a pity party. I'm not. I'm being objective about things. Theses are facts. And you can say all day that these things are subjective, but 25 years of every single woman I have ever seen being utterly and completely repulsed by the very sight of me proves that completely wrong. To imagine what I look like, think of what Quasimodo, Sloth off of the Goonies, and Joseph Merrick would look like combined into one, then perhaps scale back the ugliness just a little bit. There is NO WAY I could possibly ever work out/exercise to look anything like a typical attractive male. I'm ugly and hard to look at. That's simply a fact in evolutionary terms. It has been demonstrated ad nauseam via my results with females.

 

The two roommates I lived with literally had to put zero effort into getting girls. All they had to do was walk into a room and wink at a girl and the girls were just creaming in their pants. I envied them in some ways, but it wasn't a jealous kind of envy. It was more like a type of envy in which I just stood in awe of how they could do such things. It really is amazing to witness people who, like you said, "won the genetics lottery". I guess if there was a "shitty genetics lottery" I would be the all time champion. Maybe I'm like a martyr. Pile are your shitty genetics on me, I'll suffer the bad genetics so that no one will have to suffer them. I feel like the genetics scapegoat. Lol

I know you're done with this thread, but I also just wanted to ask why you keep insisting that I'm young? 25 is not young.

[iNow]

You're young because I'm older than you. Age is relative (and mental age even more so than journeys around the sun).

 

You seem down to earth and bright. I wish you well.

[blue89]

I don't think 25 is young. Its a pretty old age.

 

:-) look ,what you had asked ..

 

what I gave as an answer..

 

then , look what a point you had been concentrating on .. :-)

 

this is also the reason that you are giving highly energetic & young boy..appearance

 

I had succeed to give an answer according to scientificic approach (even if contained another parameters ) but look what had you cocentrated on...

 

hımmm ,are you asking my opinion??

 

- I think this is very good age ,yes I also think that is young age (but of course there exist some relative ideas ,really my appearance seems like a boy whose age is not bidder than 20-22 ,but I am 27 , I mean that the appearance depends on your own. now I will add one of my photo ,but already there exist some highly more successfull mens (like enrique igleasias ,his appearance does not mathc his age (probably mines is normal,bir his is brightly abnormal)

 

NOTE: the time is over to see my photo.

Edited July 31, 2016 by blue89

[Tampitump]

You're young because I'm older than you. Age is relative (and mental age even more so than journeys around the sun).

 

You seem down to earth and bright. I wish you well.

I appreciate it. I'm pretty happy with life these days. Its not exactly what I wanted when I was a kid, but I can cope with the lack of a love life. In fact, I think it would change my life for the worse now if I started having relationships/sex etc.

[dimreepr]

I hate to be harsh and I mean no disrespect, but this is your problem, you hide behind excuses.

 

You have convinced yourself that you are unattractive, but that isn't true, you just haven't asked enough women.

 

Ask yourself this 'how many times have I told a girl I like them', never, I'm right, right?

 

And given that, how do you know who is or isn't attracted to you, if you don't ask?

 

And that is my main point, only you can change the pattern, no-one else can do it for you, however good the advice; just relax and accept that your fate is in your hands; after-all how many people win the lottery?

 

The rest of us just get on with life, so don't be old, just be.

Edited July 31, 2016 by dimreepr

[Tampitump]

 

 

And given that, how do you know who is or isn't attracted to you, if you don't ask?

 

I've had too many examples of women directly telling me they think I'm unattractive. Even with the ones I don't hear from, their actions and behavior indicate textbook signs of dislike. They avoid me and act as if my presence in the room is ticking seconds off of their life. And its no matter what I do, or how I act. Happy, sad, mad, kind, rude, humble, cocky, outgoing, introverted, etc. This does not seem to affect the results at all. I think it is simply a predisposition by women to assume the position that I'm undesirable and therefore not even an option to consider. So the women completely ignore and/or treat me poorly. I don't even go in public around women anymore. Even though I find it fascinating to watch Darwinian selection in action, I just don't go around women anymore. I don't want to disturb them.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Tampitump

[StringJunky]

I've had too many examples of women directly telling me they think I'm unattractive. Even with the ones I don't hear from, their actions and behavior indicate textbook signs of dislike. They avoid me and act as if my presence in the room is ticking seconds off of their life. And its no matter what I do, or how I act. Happy, sad, mad, kind, rude, humble, cocky, outgoing, introverted, etc. This does not seem to affect the results at all. I think it is simply a predisposition by women to assume the position that I'm undesirable and therefore not even an option to consider. So the women completely ignore and/or treat me poorly. I don't even go in public around women anymore. Even though I find it fascinating to watch Darwinian selection in action, I just don't go around women anymore. I don't want to disturb them.

I think you have convinced yourself that just just because a particular woman doesn't look at your or give you a positive signal you are inherently unlikeable. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and some will fancy you and some won't. The most socially attractive people are the ones that are themselves, I've noticed, because one feels they can be trusted.

[dimreepr]

I've had too many examples of women directly telling me they think I'm unattractive. Even with the ones I don't hear from, their actions and behavior indicate textbook signs of dislike. They avoid me and act as if my presence in the room is ticking seconds off of their life. And its no matter what I do, or how I act. Happy, sad, mad, kind, rude, humble, cocky, outgoing, introverted, etc. This does not seem to affect the results at all. I think it is simply a predisposition by women to assume the position that I'm undesirable and therefore not even an option to consider. So the women completely ignore and/or treat me poorly. I don't even go in public around women anymore. Even though I find it fascinating to watch Darwinian selection in action, I just don't go around women anymore. I don't want to disturb them.

 

 

We both know this isn't what you want, the subtext in this thread is crystal clear, you're more than welcome to hide behind yet another excuse and wallow in your sadness; so come on grow up (I now understand why you think 26 is old) and stop thinking someone else can solve this for you, your path to peace, is to get out more often, say hello to as many girls as you can, accepting that not all will reply, and make friends with those that do and then, who know's?

Edited August 1, 2016 by dimreepr

[Tampitump]

 

 

We both know this isn't what you want, the subtext in this thread is crystal clear, you're more than welcome to hide behind yet another excuse and wallow in your sadness; so come on grow up (I now understand why you think 26 is old) and stop thinking someone else can solve this for you, your path to peace, is to get out more often, say hello to as many girls as you can, accepting that not all will reply, and make friends with those that do and then, who know's?

I find it funny how people think its just that easy. No matter how much I try to stress how abnormal and exceptional my case is, they continue to ignore me and say things like "its okay, just get out more."

 

Ahh... The luxury of being normal. Why don't you tell a blind man all he has to do is use his eyes more often and everything will be ok? It would be no more ridiculous than the bullshit you just said to me. I resent your dismissal of my issues and making light of them, then suggesting all I have to do is get out more and talk to girls more often. Do you not think I've tried this before ad nauseam? Were you not paying attention to all the examples I provided about my experiences with girls and the negative reactions they've had to me? I find it fascinating how little of their brains people employ on these matters.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Tampitump

[iNow]

While it's clear and you've shared this:

The Pectus Excavatum IS visable. I have a sever case of it. Its worse than the typical cases you normally see. I've had corrective sugery on mine twice. Once in 1995 and once in 2009. Mine went untreated through pubrety after the first procedure and ended up concaving worse than before. As a result my backbone and rib cage developed around it. I have terribly severe back curvature/arch, and ribs that flare. This, put together with my recessed chest make my body look as though I'm pot-bellied and hump-backed. It also restricts my respiratory function, making me short-winded and unable to exercise or play sports.

To me, it's this below part that seems to be where most people are challenging you:

 

I cannot conceive of any woman who, given my sheer level of undesirability and horrible traits, could be attracted to me romantically/sexually and still be, herself, fully sound of mind or body.

Yes, the odds aren't as good for you as they are for some others, but there are still plenty of people who manage to see the humanity and goodness within us despite our outward appearances, and for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with mental illness.

 

Not easy, sure, but also not impossible, especially if the connection is first made and the friendship cultivated online.

 

That said, you seem to be viewing evolution only in terms of sexual selection and individual fitness. To me that's understandable, but a mistake. Evolution is so much more than that. Keep in mind that other traits like kinship, empathy, altruism, friendship, and similar characteristics that drive stronger groups, packs, and families have also been selected. We're a social species and our social bonding tendencies extend well beyond individual mating transactions.

 

Any of those social strengthening characteristics (kinship, family, empathy, etc.) in isolation (and especially together) easily explain why some people are able to look past the physical traits and see the human inside of you and love you for who you are.

 

I suspect that underlying what many people here (and I presume elsewhere) are posting in response to your comments is the recognition that you must first let others see the person inside you and remove your own barriers to give them that chance. Instead, however, you seem to reject even the possibility of them seeing past your morphology, perhaps as a protection mechanism and to understandably avoid hurt.

 

From a pure probability standpoint, if your mating opportunities are already low to begin with then categorically rejecting the prospect of someone loving you, or only being able to do so because they're not right in the head, only lowers those chances even more.

 

I don't mean to imply any of this is easy. I also acknowledge how this all may sound coming from a phenotypically average guy, but you gave me the opportunity to comment so I have.

 

Even if it doesn't help, appreciate having had the chance to dialog about it and wish you well.

[Tampitump]

but there are still plenty of people who manage to see the humanity and goodness within us despite our outward appearances, and for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with mental illness

I hear about these people a lot. I'm still wondering where they are?

 

Again, I go back to my former roommates, the two normal, good looking guys. Its not just their physical traits that are superior, its their mental traits too. There is a mental edge they have over guys like me, a wit that makes them attractive to a woman. When I'm in the presence of an alpha male, the female always seems to become more desirous of him the more he displays his dominance by bullying and degrading me. It has happened to me countless times. It is very predictable too. You can literally see the female getting increasingly turned on by it. I've seen this happen all my life. Women are portrayed as only wanting men to love them, and not being concerned about looks or sex appeal. NONSENSE. Women have absolutely ZERO conscience or concern for feelings when choosing mates. They don't give a good god damn whose feelings they hurt or even if a guy kills himself over them. I think they get pleasure and satisfaction out of it personally.

 

When there's another guy in the situation vying for her attention, and he's attractive, and he's mistreating me to score points with her, the girl loves it and is turned on by it in every scenario I've ever seen.

 

Having to resort to meeting women online is an admission of being inadequate and does not solve the issue. If anything, It makes the issue manifestly worse. The same is true for a prostitute. I would even be willing to bet that a prostitute would either turn down doing business with me, or would drastic increase her prices for me. The situation is that bad.

 

Once again, I've digressed from the original intent of this thread. I suppose bringing up some these personal experiences does revive some hard feelings. I've moved on from this though, and it really doesn't bother me anymore. I wouldn't take a girl now if she threw herself at me.

[StringJunky]

Having to resort to meeting women online is an admission of being inadequate and does not solve the issue.

I resemble that remark.

 

I think the internet is great because I can interact with the sort of people I like that aren't available to me locally. I don't see my internet relationships as any less valid as my face-to-face ones. The only downside is they can end too abruptly and more so than face-to-face ones.

[iNow]

SJ is right. Getting ghosted sucks!

 

IMO, the only thing here that should be ghosted is the usage of the hasty/faulty generalization and the anecdotal evidence fallacies.

[Tampitump]

Ghosted? I'm not familiar with that term.

[StringJunky]

SJ is right. Getting ghosted sucks!

You've taught me a new word. Yeah... it's not very nice. Going to have to master taking that one. Plenty more fish in the cyber-sea though so it shouldn't have to bug you for too long. As a matter of principle I shall never do it. I'll speak my mind then tell them "That's it... We've hit the deck...etc" then virtually walk away or cut them off, as appropriate; as one would do face-to-face. It's more mature.

Ghosted? I'm not familiar with that term.

When somebody drops you suddenly without saying anything and blocks you. It stinks and is a spit-my-dummy-out-juvenile way to behave, imo, but hey-ho it's the internet!

Edited August 2, 2016 by StringJunky

[Tampitump]

What the hell are you talking about? You know what I hate? When someone starts talking random bullshit out of the blue like you two are now. Seriously, what the f*** are y'all talking about?

You've taught me a new word. Yeah... it's not very nice. Going to have to master taking that one. Plenty more fish in the cyber sea though so it shouldn't have to bug you for too long. As a matter of principle I shall never do it. I'll speak my mind then tell them "That's it... We've hit the deck...etc" then virtually walk away or cut them off, as appropriate; as one would do face-to-face. It's more mature.

I seriously do not understand one bit of this paragraph or what the hell it has to do with the topic of this thread.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Tampitump

[StringJunky]

What the hell are you talking about? You know what I hate? When someone starts talking random bullshit out of the blue like you two are now. Seriously, what the f*** are y'all talking about?

 

I seriously do not understand one bit of this paragraph or what the hell it has to do with the topic of this thread.

You asked what 'ghosted' meant. I answered.I think you need to look at what you've just said and the way you said it, perhaps, you will realise why you don't have a girlfriend. Adios.

 

Edited.

Edited August 2, 2016 by StringJunky

[Tampitump]

You asked what 'ghosted' meant. I answered.I think you need to look at what you've just said and the way you said it, perhaps, you will realise why you don't have a girlfriend. Adios.

 

Edited.

And I'm the one making hasty generalizations by focusing on only a portion of the evidence? Even if what you think of me is true, how do you know I started this way? How do you know I wasn't made to be this way? Your paragraph was incoherent and made no sense whatsoever. And I could not link either of your posts to anything that was said before it, or to anything having to do with anything that was being discussed. That crap bugs the hell out of me, I can't help it. Either make sense or go away. That's just my personal feeling on that. Edited August 2, 2016 by Tampitump

[StringJunky]

Your paragraph was incoherent and made no sense whatsoever. And I could not link either of your posts to anything that was said before it, or to anything having to do with anything that was being discussed. That crap bugs the hell out of me, I can't help it. Either make sense or go away. That's just my personal feeling on that.

It was incoherent to you

 

You can't link this to what I said?:

 

Having to resort to meeting women online is an admission of being inadequate and does not solve the issue.

 

I think you are just guiding this discussion to what you want to hear from us to support and reinforce your belief about your problems and the futility of trying solve them.