Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) Should be a question mark after the word gun in the topic line, sorry guys, I wasn't paying attention... Not sure where to post this, I'll post it by it's self. But it looks a good guy with a gun made a difference... https://www.facebook.com/anonews.co/videos/1251420218202868/ Edited July 30, 2016 by Moontanman
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Not sure where to post this, I'll post it by it's self. But it looks a good guy with a gun made a difference... https://www.facebook.com/anonews.co/videos/1251420218202868/ From the comments: First of all, there's a big fucking difference between an attempted robbery and a mass shooting. Secondly, you're proposing that people should be allowed to bring guns into nightclubs, when alcohol is involved heavily, and you expect the problem to solve itself? 8,896 · 18 June at 16:16 · Edited 1
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 From the comments: Why is the comments relevant? It wasn't a night club...
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Why is the comments relevant? It wasn't a night club... Because it is. The author of that thread in its title asks: "If more #Pulse club patrons were armed, could they have thwarted the #OrlandoShooting ?" He then uses that attempted bank robbery video as justification for carrying arms. 1
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 From the comments: I am not proposing anything, I am suggesting discussion, I see no reason to discuss what is in the answer section of the thread rather than the thread it's self. if you want to discuss the pulse night club shooting i would suggest you start your own thread to do so... I simply wanted to see what people thought about this incident..
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I am not proposing anything, I am suggesting discussion, I see no reason to discuss what is in the answer section of the thread rather than the thread it's self. if you want to discuss the pulse night club shooting i would suggest you start your own thread to do so... I simply wanted to see what people thought about this incident.. You never made that clear. I interpreted it as I did. Your fault for nor not elaborating in your OP Edited July 30, 2016 by StringJunky
Sensei Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 If grandpa started shooting to robbers in the Palms Internet Cafe (title from the beginning of video), he had to have gun all the time, since exiting home. Did he knew he will need it exactly this day.. ? Or he carry gun every single day, literally everywhere.. ? Are he so afraid to going outside of his home, that he carry it all the time with him? Carry gun to go to Internet Cafe?! How many years, and days, he was carrying gun everywhere.. ? (75-18)*365=20,805 days ?
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 If grandpa started shooting to robbers in the Palms Internet Cafe (title from the beginning of video), he had to have gun all the time, since exiting home. Did he knew he will need it exactly this day.. ? Or he carry gun every single day, literally everywhere.. ? Are he so afraid to going outside of his home, that he carry it all the time with him? Carry gun to go to Internet Cafe?! How many years, and days, he was carrying gun everywhere.. ? (75-18)*365=20,805 days ? Even a blind pig finds that occasional acorn, I wonder how often people are robbed in public where a gun toting civilian does nothing but make the situation worse? I was watching a movie last night, some western where of course everyone had a gun and the bad guys are always defeated by a good guy with a gun... i wonder how much this particular image contributes to the meme of good guy with a gun? The old west wasn't quite as well armed as people are being led to believe, even there guns in town were often forbidden. The video almost looks contrived to me as well, not to mention the "good guy with a gun" continues to shoot at the robbers even though they are doing nothing but trying to get away. Lots of problems with that little video, yet it is being passed back and forth as though it is a righteous act of some sort. I am thinking the old guy broke the law or would have if he'd been in my state, if i understand gun laws at all... At some point the whole good guy with a gun thing will have to be addressed. You never made that clear. I interpreted it as I did. Your fault for nor not elaborating in your OP Since when do we discuss what others have to say on other forums instead of the topic it's self?
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Since when do we discuss what others have to say on other forums instead of the topic it's self? OK. the comment echoed my thought although I would have worded different. The point remains that It was not clear to me what your angle was for discussion. To the discussion: Some valuables/money never got stolen and somebody had more chance of being killed than if the robbers had been left to get on with it. A life is not worth risking losing .for the sake of some personal property.
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 If grandpa started shooting to robbers in the Palms Internet Cafe (title from the beginning of video), he had to have gun all the time, since exiting home. Did he knew he will need it exactly this day.. ? Or he carry gun every single day, literally everywhere.. ? Are he so afraid to going outside of his home, that he carry it all the time with him? Carry gun to go to Internet Cafe?! How many years, and days, he was carrying gun everywhere.. ? (75-18)*365=20,805 days ? OK. the comment echoed my thought although I would have worded different. The point remains that It was not clear to me what your angle was for discussion. To the discussion: Some valuables/money never got stolen and somebody had more chance of being killed than if the robbers had been left to get on with it. A life is not worth risking losing .for the sake of some personal property. You guys are correct, not my day, i thought I'd put a question mark in the title... I am really not on top of it today...
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 You guys are correct, not my day, i thought I'd put a question mark in the title... I am really not on top of it today... Never mind mate, we all have 'em.
andrewcellini Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) The way he didn't brace his handgun with his non dominant hand (and he even removes his non dominant hand before his last shot), I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't prepared to shoot outside of a range. Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of him taking a knee every shot was, but it seems as though he wasn't prepared to move and shoot either; it seems typically you remain standing as you move, though I've only witnessed instructors doing it at a range. I wouldn't trust him to save my life twice if I were in that cafe, especially against suspects that are willing to shoot back. In a situation as this, what reason would I have to believe that I'll be alright? It isn't apparent that the person has substantial military or police experience, or that they have trained and continue to train with their shooting and tactical skills. All you know is there's another guy in casual clothes who also has a gun. Edited July 30, 2016 by andrewcellini
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 The way he didn't brace his handgun with his non dominant hand (and he even removes his non dominant hand before his last shot), I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't prepared to shoot outside of a range. Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of him taking a knee every shot was, but it seems as though he wasn't prepared to move and shoot either; it seems typically you remain standing as you move, though I've only witnessed instructors doing it at a range. I wouldn't trust him to save my life twice if I were in that cafe, especially against suspects that are willing to shoot back. In a situation as this, what reason would I have to believe that I'll be alright? It isn't apparent that the person has substantial military or police experience, or that they have trained and continue to train with their shooting and tactical skills. All you know is there's another guy in casual clothes who also has a gun. I thought he looked kinda funny, gun range explains it though...
Endy0816 Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 People have been using internet cafe's for quasi-legal gambling operations. Haven't heard of anything after the crackdown a few years back, but there had been a number of armed robberies occurring.
ajb Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 This is part of 'cherry picking' the evidence. A few cases of 'good guy with a gun' does not change the overall statistics on the public health issue guns create in the US. 1
John Cuthber Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Should be a question mark after the word gun in the topic line, sorry guys, I wasn't paying attention... Not sure where to post this, I'll post it by it's self. But it looks a good guy with a gun made a difference... https://www.facebook.com/anonews.co/videos/1251420218202868/ If the "bad guys" had been willing to fight back this would have probably ended with 1 dead senior citizen. Now imagine what would have happened if none of the three people involved had a gun. Oh look! No incident at all. So, for no good reason, the other people present were put at risk- and yet someone is trying to portray this as a food thing. That shows how bad things have got, and why you need gun law reform. 1
Raider5678 Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 If the "bad guys" had been willing to fight back this would have probably ended with 1 dead senior citizen. Now imagine what would have happened if none of the three people involved had a gun. Oh look! No incident at all. So, for no good reason, the other people present were put at risk- and yet someone is trying to portray this as a food thing. That shows how bad things have got, and why you need gun law reform. I'm 90% certain you meant to say good thing, not food thing. Unless your really hungry. And that still doesn't explain it. Anyway, the guy attempted to shoot robbers. He continued to shoot at them as they ran away. He could have hit like 5-6 citizens easily, and missed the robbers entirely. He did make a difference though, which is pretty much all moontanman said about it. 1
John Cuthber Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I'm 90% certain you meant to say good thing, not food thing. Doh!
Moontanman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 This is part of 'cherry picking' the evidence. A few cases of 'good guy with a gun' does not change the overall statistics on the public health issue guns create in the US. People have been using internet cafe's for quasi-legal gambling operations. Haven't heard of anything after the crackdown a few years back, but there had been a number of armed robberies occurring. If the "bad guys" had been willing to fight back this would have probably ended with 1 dead senior citizen. Now imagine what would have happened if none of the three people involved had a gun. Oh look! No incident at all. So, for no good reason, the other people present were put at risk- and yet someone is trying to portray this as a food thing. That shows how bad things have got, and why you need gun law reform. I honestly cannot justify carrying a gun around public, ajb I wonder why we are not seeing reports "good guy with a gun" screwing up? Cherry picking certainly has something to do with it. Endy, I am not familiar with the internet cafe' thing at all. John, how would you accomplish your goal of zero guns? Walk around house to house tearing them apart to find guns? What is ideally done and what can actually be done are often two different beasts. Do you know of any societies that have no guns? Does that always equate to no robberies? sensei makes a good point, I wonder how long this guy had been looking forward to his intervention in a crime? I have no desire to be a part of a crime on either side... I honestly think this video is far from a good guy with a gun, he breaks both laws and my personal moral code if not his. The "GGWAG" was really lucky in many ways. He went up against inexperienced juveniles, they were evidently not willing to "hold their ground" and it looked to me like one of them had a shotgun. In a shot gun vs hand gun the shot gun would get my support.. All of my gun toting buddies are going nuts over this BTW.. 1
dimreepr Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) The problem with carrying a gun, even for a saint, is the fact that accidents happen; even a highly trained professional has a bad day/mood, every now and then, that may cause a fatal mistake to an innocent. I personally find it difficult impossible to find any logical justification for anyone to carry a gun, unless they'd starve without it. Edited July 30, 2016 by dimreepr
StringJunky Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I personally find it difficult to find any logical justification for anyone to carry a gun, unless they'd starve without it. We've got through half a century each without needing one, haven't we? Edited July 30, 2016 by StringJunky
John Cuthber Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Do you know of any societies that have no guns? Does that always equate to no robberies? I know of some societies with fewer guns. Have a look at the lists of robbers here. I accept there's some reporting bias but the US seems to have produced rather more than its fair share of armed robbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bank_robbers_and_robberies And the first step to getting a society wirth fewerguns is to get a society that accepts that it's a good idea.
dimreepr Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 We've got through half a century each without needing one, haven't we? Indeed, I had hours of fun with my air-rifle and a few drinks cans (for when the urge is strong).
Sensei Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) I'm confused how the hell police officers can distinguish "good guys with guns" from "bad guys with guns" in the "middle of battle".. (not to mention your title is sexists, because you assume only male is terrorist-to-be (or mass-killer-to-be), while female is not) Edited August 4, 2016 by Sensei 1
Moontanman Posted August 4, 2016 Author Posted August 4, 2016 I'm confused how the hell police officers can distinguish "good guys with guns" from "bad guys with guns" in the "middle of battle".. (not to mention your title is sexists, because you assume only male is terrorist-to-be (or mass-killer-to-be), while female is not) Just when I think you "guys" take me seriously...
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