Cycling problem: numb hands/fingers

[StringJunky]

After about 5 or 6 miles parts of my hands start to go numb, the areas affected depending on how I'm gripping the bars. I have reduced my grip and also move my hands in various positions periodically which helps. Some pictures follow which might inspire suggestions and should give an idea of my current setup. I'm open to any ideas for modification of my technique, bike/handle geometry or other equipment.

 

Would swept back riser bars help?

 

It's an 18" frame and I have a 31" inside leg. The crossbar just touches my crotch when standing astride it. A 16" will be my next acquisition for better clearance there

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by StringJunky

[Externet]

Try to discern if the numbness is due to hands position or neck position. Cervical nerves will produce it, specially if there is some history of trauma. Then, follow other pertinent positioning tactics to avoid it. Lower the seat, raise handlebars, both...?

[StringJunky]

Try to discern if the numbness is due to hands position or neck position. Cervical nerves will produce it, specially if there is some history of trauma. Then, follow other pertinent positioning tactics to avoid it. Lower the seat, raise handlebars, both...?

I've read that the ulnar nerve running through the wrist is a culprit which might be helped if I use swept bars, I've raised the front to reduce the balance towards the front; it has helped. I don't want to mess with the seat height because then that will give me problems with my legs. It's swings'n'roundabouts. I'll check out about cervical nerves; cheers.

[imatfaal]

Different mitts? Or, thinking more rationally, wearing mitts in the first place.

 

Your set up seems very front high back low - but maybe you prefer it that way. FYG I have a 34-35 (87cm) inside leg and my saddle height is 81.5cm from middle of bottom bracket to saddle (measured along the centre of the tube - as much as possible)

 

I have never been a great fan of super clever handle bar grips - I use plain round ones with minimal padding (I dumped my fancy ones) and manage (with mitts) to do over 20miles per commute with no numbness. On my road bike for long trips I will shift hand position regularly - and only get numbness if I settle into one position for prolonged periods (but at that point my back, bum, and shoulders are probably also complaining).

 

It sounds like ulnar nerve problems rather than cervical nerve to me. It sounds like a problem with the Ulnar Nerve and the introduction of that nerve into the palm of the hand via guyons canal - or perhaps later on in the ulnar canal - Function is studying this stuff right now so maybe he can look up clinical symptoms in the back of his functional anatomy text I think it is unlikely to be cervical spinal nerve damage. The thing to search on is Cyclists Palsy or Ulnar Nerve Cycling

 

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20140820-Physiotherapy-Ask-the-Experts--Hand-and-wrist-pain-on-the-bike-0

 

I will always use British Cycling in preference to other sites

[StringJunky]

Different mitts? Or, thinking more rationally, wearing mitts in the first place.

I have worn mitts and it helps a bit; cheap ones though from Halfords. Any recommendations on specific ones for this purpose?

 

 

Your set up seems very front high back low - but maybe you prefer it that way. FYG I have a 34-35 (87cm) inside leg and my saddle height is 81.5cm from middle of bottom bracket to saddle (measured along the centre of the tube - as much as possible)

I think this too but bear in mind it's got suspension forks. Don't know whether to swap them out for some normal ones. The stem is pivoted and I only recently raised it to reduce the forward leaning pressure. It's knowing where to start with the fitting of the bike is the first step, I suppose.

 

 

I have never been a great fan of super clever handle bar grips - I use plain round ones with minimal padding (I dumped my fancy ones) and manage (with mitts) to do over 20miles per commute with no numbness. On my road bike for long trips I will shift hand position regularly - and only get numbness if I settle into one position for prolonged periods (but at that point my back, bum, and shoulders are probably also complaining).

Yeah, the grips don't seem to help that much and they cost me 60 quid. Round ones, well chosen, with the right mitts might be worth exploring.

 

 

It sounds like ulnar nerve problems rather than cervical nerve to me. It sounds like a problem with the Ulnar Nerve and the introduction of that nerve into the palm of the hand via guyons canal - or perhaps later on in the ulnar canal - Function is studying this stuff right now so maybe he can look up clinical symptoms in the back of his functional anatomy text I think it is unlikely to be cervical spinal nerve damage. The thing to search on is Cyclists Palsy or Ulnar Nerve Cycling

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/article/izn20140820-Physiotherapy-Ask-the-Experts--Hand-and-wrist-pain-on-the-bike-0

I will always use British Cycling in preference to other sites.

Function will butt in then, hopefully. Thanks for the link.

[imatfaal]

re Mitts. Not really - I don't suffer really with this problem but more importantly fitting is very personal. My favourite mitts are Bontrager - but only cos my cheap Altura died. Go to Evans or Cycle Surgery and try them all on (and then go on to internet and buy them there!)

[Function]

Function will butt in then, hopefully. Thanks for the link.

 

Someone called?

 

Tbh, I had to quit the brachial plexus research due to health reasons (mononucleosis), but I'll try to help where possible.

 

Blah blah medical disclaimer (I'm not a doctor, do not consider me as one and do not blindly follow my advices; when in doubt, consult a physician).

 

My intuition tells me that a nerve problem (i.e. compression) would rather cause pain than numbness - though I just read about handlebar injury.

 

Can you try to explain where exactly in your hand the numbness appears? Does it stop immediately when you stop cycling? Or does it go on for a (short) while? Is it preceded by pain? Or straight away numbness? Have you experienced sharp pains in your hand during the cycling, or when doing any other activity? Do your symptoms appear in any other situation?

 

--

 

Something else that comes to mind: I've discovered that when I lay down, supporting my body on my forearms, my hands start to feel numb, and indeed, a complete absence of pulse: probably compression of subclavian/axillary artery.

 

But that doesn't mean that is the case for you: it may very have a neurological cause (that is, caused by a nerve; I don't mean CNS neurology). Compression of that artery is a common symptom in thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS), in which, by the way, also the brachial plexus may be compressed.

 

I'd like you to test something out: after these few miles, when the numbness appears, try to stay in the same position, so to keep the numbness present; then, very carefully, relieve 1 arm of its supportive function (i.e. release the handlebar), and with that hand, try to palpate your ulnar and radial arteries of the other arm. Again: very carefully. In best case, you will have 1 non-numb arm being able to do everything (palpating), and 1 numb arm undergoing your examination.

 

If you don't feel a pulse, you may want to be tested for TOS

[StringJunky]

Swapping out the straight bar and Ergon grips for a riser bar and ovoid cross-section grips has done the trick and providing I occasionally shift position I suffer no numbness now on a 16km ride.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by StringJunky

[imatfaal]

Swapping out the straight bar and Ergon grips for a riser bar and ovoid cross-section grips has done the trick and providing I occasionally shift position I suffer no numbness now on a 16km ride.

 

 

16km - so alright for a short ride but what about a decent length? Only joking - good to hear you have found a solution, and frankly these things are so personal that only you can find the solution.

 

Talking about personal - here is a snapshot of my commuter's handlebars. I do about 10-12000km a year on this bike and you can see that with that amount of usage you tend to end up with odd but unique and personal solutions; each hand has different brakes, different shifters, and different grips

 

[StringJunky]

 

16km - so alright for a short ride but what about a decent length? Only joking - good to hear you have found a solution, and frankly these things are so personal that only you can find the solution.

 

Talking about personal - here is a snapshot of my commuter's handlebars. I do about 10-12000km a year on this bike and you can see that with that amount of usage you tend to end up with odd but unique and personal solutions; each hand has different brakes, different shifters, and different grips

 

 

I'm building up my distance. I'm doing 2x16km a day at the moment. It was not so long ago that I could barely walk 500m, during interferon and ribavirin therapy, to the shop and back, so I'm pretty happy with my progress atm. With the grips being ovalish, I can twist them easily, on demand, to suit each hand as I ride along. Five quid from Halfords; contrast that with 60 quid for the Ergons and they didn't suit me.

 

 

Talking about personal - here is a snapshot of my commuter's handlebars. I do about 10-12000km a year on this bike and you can see that with that amount of usage you tend to end up with odd but unique and personal solutions; each hand has different brakes, different shifters, and different grips

That's some serious bilateral asymmetry going on there but I applaud you on not caring about image and putting personal ergonomics first; this is my approach to my bike. When you think about it; we are not, typically, bilaterally symmetrical, so it makes sense to tailor the bike to that, if comfort and 'fit' matters.

 

Do you know if there is worthwhile difference between budget front suspensions and more expensive ones, in terms of handling the range of road surfaces; not off-road? I'm thinking of old B and single-track back roads that have had lots of potholes filled, making the experience quite jarring through the hands sometimes.

Edited September 1, 2016 by StringJunky

[MigL]

Or, it could be bad circulation due to your smoking habit.

 

Maybe the situation will improve now that you're making an attempt to quit ?

[StringJunky]

Or, it could be bad circulation due to your smoking habit.

 

Maybe the situation will improve now that you're making an attempt to quit ?

We'll see.

[imatfaal]

Frankly if you can decide to kick smoking and actually get over viral hep then cycling is a piece of cake - kudos for succeeding so far and good luck for the current challenge.

 

Regarding suspension - not my scene; I have only ever used it on serious downhill and then on borrowed bikes with A1 equipment. For bumpy roads and tracks I prefer rigid carbon forks and a good width squidgy tyre. Hopefully Arete will look at this thread - if memory serves he races MTB's and will have much more experience with front susp than I have.

[StringJunky]

Frankly if you can decide to kick smoking and actually get over viral hep then cycling is a piece of cake - kudos for succeeding so far and good luck for the current challenge.

 

Regarding suspension - not my scene; I have only ever used it on serious downhill and then on borrowed bikes with A1 equipment. For bumpy roads and tracks I prefer rigid carbon forks and a good width squidgy tyre. Hopefully Arete will look at this thread - if memory serves he races MTB's and will have much more experience with front susp than I have.

Thanks

 

Cool, I hope he butts in.

Edited September 2, 2016 by StringJunky

[Arete]

The first difference is weight - the old adage of "light, strong, cheap. Pick two" rings true.

 

The next issue, not necessarily to do with cost is air springs vs coil. Air forks are almost always lighter and have a naturally progressive spring rate. The spring rate is also infinitely adjustable, because it's pressurized air. Coil forks, because the use a dedicated hydraulic damping system are usually better damped and generally have a linear spring rate, which means that they offer more controllable suspension travel, they are generally cheaper, but heavier than air forks. Very generally speaking (with a host of exceptions) air is better for cross country riding, coil is better for downhill.

 

The third issue is adjustability. A cheap fork probably only has adjustments for rebound and preload. A more expensive fork may have low speed and high speed compression adjustments, lockout (locks the suspension for smooth surfaces and climbing).

 

The final issue is length - more travel requires a physically longer fork, which can rake out the head angle on a bike not designed for the length of the fork, making the steering sluggish. Generally speaking, forks with more than 100mm of travel are inappropriate for bikes not designed for them.

 

Ultimately, for what you're proposing, a 100mm entry level air fork would be perfect. Something like this or this. If you don't mind the weight of a coil fork and need to spend less $, this would work well too.

 

Well done on kicking the cancer sticks.

[StringJunky]

The first difference is weight - the old adage of "light, strong, cheap. Pick two" rings true.

 

The next issue, not necessarily to do with cost is air springs vs coil. Air forks are almost always lighter and have a naturally progressive spring rate. The spring rate is also infinitely adjustable, because it's pressurized air. Coil forks, because the use a dedicated hydraulic damping system are usually better damped and generally have a linear spring rate, which means that they offer more controllable suspension travel, they are generally cheaper, but heavier than air forks. Very generally speaking (with a host of exceptions) air is better for cross country riding, coil is better for downhill.

 

The third issue is adjustability. A cheap fork probably only has adjustments for rebound and preload. A more expensive fork may have low speed and high speed compression adjustments, lockout (locks the suspension for smooth surfaces and climbing).

 

The final issue is length - more travel requires a physically longer fork, which can rake out the head angle on a bike not designed for the length of the fork, making the steering sluggish. Generally speaking, forks with more than 100mm of travel are inappropriate for bikes not designed for them.

 

Ultimately, for what you're proposing, a 100mm entry level air fork would be perfect. Something like this or this. If you don't mind the weight of a coil fork and need to spend less $, this would work well too.

 

Well done on kicking the cancer sticks.

Thanks Arete. I shall absorb what you've posted. My current forks only have preload.

 

The battle's not won yet but I feel OK. I go riding my bike when I can taste the fags in my mind.