How can someone like animals more than people?

[Lyudmilascience]

how can someone like animals more then people? people are kinder then animals. the kindest person is going to be kinder then the kindest animal. frankly it scares me when someone says they like animals more then people. people can do way more things in this world then animals and we should value that in humans. I think it is unethical to like animals in general over people or even the same as people. I think as people we should love and value people more. I think we should not mistreat animals but we should not treat them more special or better then people. I dont think anyone who claims they like animals more then or just as much as people really means it because they will definitely save their friends and family over an animal. even if a stranger was dying I would save them over my own pet. even if the stranger ended up being a drug addict or villain I would not regret saving them for all I know they could have been a good person. I wouldn't save them if they were a threat to me. I don't even think animals are capable of loving unconditionally, because i know really good dog and cat owners but their pet still ran away from them. they are not that loyal they only want to be with the person if they are helping the animal. once they stop they will never come back to the person. I do not think animals can love other species and I do not think animals can do something for another species and not want something in return, any animal doing a favor for another animal will want something in return if its not for their family. people can just do favors out of the goodness of their heart and not want anything in return and I love that about humans, I am very much like that. another thing I like that people are doing is trying to improve the quality of life for many people, as many as possible. the person that likes animals more then people focused on how people are causing all the problems like killing our planet and animals,people seek revenge, have wars but dosent look at the good things people do, animals dont do anything good for other species intentionaly.

[iNow]

First, humans are animals, too. Second, those comments are probably voiced bc people have been repeatedly hurt by other humans, but only ever loved unconditionally by animals. Unclear why you find this so impenetrably confusing. Third, you are completely ignoring just how horribly shitty humans so often are (please don't make me cite specifics, the list is far too long and disheartening). Fourth, why do you even care?

Edited August 10, 2016 by iNow

[StringJunky]

First, humans are animals, too. Second, those comments are probably voiced bc people have been repeatedly hurt by other humans, but only ever loved unconditionally by animals. Unclear why you find this so impenetrably confusing. Third, you are completely ignoring just how horribly shitty humans so often are (please don't make me cite specifics, the list is far too long and disheartening). Fourth, why do you even care?

Yes. The niceness or kindness of humans is really only a cleverly worn veneer, masking a selfishly motivated agenda. It is rare as rocking horse droppings to find a genuinely kind human, once you've delved deeper into the person.

[Phi for All]

There are people I know who don't care about other people at all. Should I love them more than my dog? I don't.

 

I judge every creature by their actions. I love the ones who's actions make my life better.

[swansont]

the kindest person is going to be kinder then the kindest animal.

 

 

Which is not relevant, unless you change the premise to "all people like animals more than humans", which is obviously untrue.

[DrKrettin]

the kindest person is going to be kinder then the kindest animal.

 

 

That is probably true, but as already stated, probably irrelevant because you just don't meet many kind people. The converse could also be said:

 

the cruellest person is going to be crueller then the cruellest animal.

 

Where in the animal kingdom do you find cruelty other than in our species?

 

Animals are easier to love than humans. Loving humans is hard work, whereas loving a dog is usually a doddle. You could argue that this is a cop-out.

[DrP]

QUOTE DrKrettin: "where in the animal kingdom do you find cruelty"

 

....Our kitten was an enthusiastic hunter. She liked butterfly chasing. Problem was she liked to release them for another chase but they flew off..... she came up with an ingenious way to stop the flying. I found her with a butterfly that she had pinned down with one claw and was stripping/shredding its wings with the other. She put 4 or 5 rips in each wing, very carefully and meticulously - enough that the thing wouldn't die but could not fly. Her little toy could then flap its way around the garden without really getting off the ground so she could chase and re catch it again over and over...

 

I though this was an amazing act of intelligence from her (associating the wings with flight, shredding them and leaving the creature alive etc..).... but also very cruel!

[DrKrettin]

Well, I recently saw some footage of orcas playing with a see lion, throwing it about as if they were playing basketball. The commentator said this was the nearest thing he knew of to cruelty outside our species. But I wonder about the kitten. The real question is whether the kitten was aware that a butterfly could experience pain. If so, then it is cruelty, but I question that.

 

Cats are known to toy with mice rather than kill them outright. but this is probably because they never learned how to kill, rather than being cruel on purpose. Something I have never understood is how anybody can love a cat - as animals it is perfectly obvious that they are phenomenally selfish, probably autistic (if that's possible). What people see as affection I see as learned behaviour for their own benefit, and is totally false. But there I suspect I am in a minority with that opinion. I even prefer people to cats.

[Lyudmilascience]

There are people I know who don't care about other people at all. Should I love them more than my dog? I don't.

 

I judge every creature by their actions. I love the ones who's actions make my life better.

I agree, but I would care about them more only if they were not harming me and helping humanity more then taking from it, so being at least a little productive. so would you say that the actions include productivity? or is it only based on kindness towards others? I don't think anyone should love them more, I just think in general most people try to be good and most of them follow the law and if it came down to saving a good human or just an animal I would choose the human. there will be more animals but the humans can not be replaced. I don't know. maybe I'm not right. I just have had many kind people in my life, I guess I attract good people. I also want to help everyone become kind and moral.

 

 

Which is not relevant, unless you change the premise to "all people like animals more than humans", which is obviously untrue.

I don't understand why would my statement have to be " all people like animals more then humans?"? It is relevant because I do not see how a person can care less about people then animals, the person is a person so you are also caring about yourself less then animals. yes people have done plenty of terrible things in this world to other people animals and the world but you would not want to not care as much as much about all people just because some very powerful ones are causing so much damage. I think you should judge them by what they have done and I believe most people are kind hearted. hopefully someone would not want all people to not exist just because one did something horrible. or all have a worse life then animals just because some people did something horrible.

[swansont]

 

I don't understand why would my statement have to be " all people like animals more then humans?"? It is relevant because I do not see how a person can care less about people then animals, the person is a person so you are also caring about yourself less then animals. yes people have done plenty of terrible things in this world to other people animals and the world but you would not want to not care as much as much about all people just because some very powerful ones are causing so much damage. I think you should judge them by what they have done and I believe most people are kind hearted. hopefully someone would not want all people to not exist just because one did something horrible. or all have a worse life then animals just because some people did something horrible.

 

 

If I don't know the kindest person in the world, how kind they are has essentially no impact on me. Whether a person considers animals as being more important depends on what people and animals they have interacted with. The only way to ensure the comparison of kindest person and kindest animal matters is to consider all people in the analysis. Because for any one person to like animals more than people, they simply need to have animals that are kinder than the people they've interacted with. As others have pointed out, that's not difficult for some people.

[Phi for All]

I agree, but I would care about them more only if they were not harming me and helping humanity more then taking from it, so being at least a little productive. so would you say that the actions include productivity? or is it only based on kindness towards others? I don't think anyone should love them more, I just think in general most people try to be good and most of them follow the law and if it came down to saving a good human or just an animal I would choose the human. there will be more animals but the humans can not be replaced. I don't know. maybe I'm not right. I just have had many kind people in my life, I guess I attract good people. I also want to help everyone become kind and moral.

 

Well now you're changing the conditions while still criticizing my choices. Now you're just talking about "a good human", instead of humans in general. In this case, yes, I would save a selfless member of Doctors Without Borders before a snarling, rabid wolf who eat babies (over Vegan protests).

 

But consider this scenario. I know a man who regularly cheated on his wife the whole time they were married. After their two children were grown and out of the house, he left his wife for another woman, but they never divorced. The other woman eventually left him, and his wife took him back in, believing that her vows meant she shouldn't give up on him.

 

He lost all their savings on stock market speculations. He now refuses to find work, and while he's too young for Social Security, he's pushing his wife to take it early, which means her fixed income for the rest of her life will be much lower than if she waited. She can't leave him because she feels loyalty to the marriage. It's like he's drowning, she's trying to help him, but he's pushing her under to save himself.

 

She's now borrowing money from friends who really can't afford it, so it's like he's pulling those people underwater with him too. The man is a sociopath, a liar, and he is a detriment to anyone he comes into contact with.

 

If he was the human in your save-a-human story, and my dog was the animal, you'd be asking me to save someone I know will cause more harm than good to people I know and love, over an animal who has given me and my family nothing but love and companionship. By choosing my dog, I could actually help more humans, humans who maybe deserve my help more than this man.

 

It's more than just choosing humans over animals just because we're the same. Some humans have done nothing to deserve being treated as humans.

[StringJunky]

"

 

 

Well now you're changing the conditions while still criticizing my choices. Now you're just talking about "a good human", instead of humans in general. In this case, yes, I would save a selfless member of Doctors Without Borders before a snarling, rabid wolf who eat babies (over Vegan protests).

 

But consider this scenario. I know a man who regularly cheated on his wife the whole time they were married. After their two children were grown and out of the house, he left his wife for another woman, but they never divorced. The other woman eventually left him, and his wife took him back in, believing that her vows meant she shouldn't give up on him.

 

He lost all their savings on stock market speculations. He now refuses to find work, and while he's too young for Social Security, he's pushing his wife to take it early, which means her fixed income for the rest of her life will be much lower than if she waited. She can't leave him because she feels loyalty to the marriage. It's like he's drowning, she's trying to help him, but he's pushing her under to save himself.

 

She's now borrowing money from friends who really can't afford it, so it's like he's pulling those people underwater with him too. The man is a sociopath, a liar, and he is a detriment to anyone he comes into contact with.

 

If he was the human in your save-a-human story, and my dog was the animal, you'd be asking me to save someone I know will cause more harm than good to people I know and love, over an animal who has given me and my family nothing but love and companionship. By choosing my dog, I could actually help more humans, humans who maybe deserve my help more than this man.

 

It's more than just choosing humans over animals just because we're the same. Some humans have done nothing to deserve being treated as humans.

"The more people I meet the more I miss my dog" - Mark Twain

[disarray]

Despite the hype, there is scant information about humans who actually grew up in the wild (e.g., raised by animals) without human contact, there are cases where some have reached a certain age with virtually no human contact (e.g., parents stuffed them in a locked room), with the result that they behave much like wild animals. Apparently, once one reaches a certain age, (say, around 7), there are some things that one just cannot learn, much like the brain stops growing in such a way that it easily absorbs language.

 

Although, as people such as Darwin and Wilson have pointed out, many animals express altruism. empathy, and reciprocation, the human brain is much more advanced in this regard. It is good to keep in mind that there is no clear cutoff point between the evolution of modern humans and earlier hominids, and of course, between other animals.

 

From a less scientific approach, I personally find it ironic that many people have little time for those who are mentally disabled or who are, for example, thought to be intellectually or emotionally immature, yet will say with all sincerity that they adore their cat or dog more than any other person in the world. Um....what is the comparative IQ or EQ of a cat?

Edited August 11, 2016 by disarray

[Lyudmilascience]

 

Well now you're changing the conditions while still criticizing my choices. Now you're just talking about "a good human", instead of humans in general. In this case, yes, I would save a selfless member of Doctors Without Borders before a snarling, rabid wolf who eat babies (over Vegan protests).

 

But consider this scenario. I know a man who regularly cheated on his wife the whole time they were married. After their two children were grown and out of the house, he left his wife for another woman, but they never divorced. The other woman eventually left him, and his wife took him back in, believing that her vows meant she shouldn't give up on him.

 

He lost all their savings on stock market speculations. He now refuses to find work, and while he's too young for Social Security, he's pushing his wife to take it early, which means her fixed income for the rest of her life will be much lower than if she waited. She can't leave him because she feels loyalty to the marriage. It's like he's drowning, she's trying to help him, but he's pushing her under to save himself.

 

She's now borrowing money from friends who really can't afford it, so it's like he's pulling those people underwater with him too. The man is a sociopath, a liar, and he is a detriment to anyone he comes into contact with.

 

If he was the human in your save-a-human story, and my dog was the animal, you'd be asking me to save someone I know will cause more harm than good to people I know and love, over an animal who has given me and my family nothing but love and companionship. By choosing my dog, I could actually help more humans, humans who maybe deserve my help more than this man.

 

It's more than just choosing humans over animals just because we're the same. Some humans have done nothing to deserve being treated as humans.

sorry I thought you were answering my question about saving a human you don't know over your pet. What do you think about saving a human you don't know over your dog? you assumed the person was unkind and not deserving but what if you didn't know if he was good or not? I didnt mean to change the senereo I was just thinking of a different one. say you have no way of finding out weather they are good or not at that point. I also think you cant completly blame the guy in your story because the woman is choosing to borrow money from friends for him and stay married. but its probably 90 percent his fault. she shoulnt be staying with a guy that's dragging her down.and what about people whos job it is to save people do you think if just a criminal is dying should the person save them? the person knows they are criminal, they wont go to jail if they got saved and the person might loose their job if they dont.

 

 

If I don't know the kindest person in the world, how kind they are has essentially no impact on me. Whether a person considers animals as being more important depends on what people and animals they have interacted with. The only way to ensure the comparison of kindest person and kindest animal matters is to consider all people in the analysis. Because for any one person to like animals more than people, they simply need to have animals that are kinder than the people they've interacted with. As others have pointed out, that's not difficult for some people.

thats a good answer thanks. does the person that lets say mainly had bad interactions with people in life consider them self and their own good actions as a reason to value humans, they might think that their are other people kind like me out there. From my experience I would hate all people, but I do not, because I know I am an incredibly kind person. I never had any good friends after eighth grade every friend that i had either left early or betrayed me yet i still prefer people. there is a saying treat people the way you want to be treated. I still treat people very well because I want to find someone like me. Do you think most people who prefer animals consider themselves as the reason they should love humans more then animals?

[ModernArtist25]

 

 

Cats are known to toy with mice rather than kill them outright. but this is probably because they never learned how to kill, rather than being cruel on purpose. Something I have never understood is how anybody can love a cat - as animals it is perfectly obvious that they are phenomenally selfish, probably autistic (if that's possible). What people see as affection I see as learned behaviour for their own benefit, and is totally false. But there I suspect I am in a minority with that opinion. I even prefer people to cats.

 

Can you give some examples of how cats can be selfish?

[disarray]

Can you give some examples of how cats can be selfish?

Well, I don't think that many people would care all that much how high a cat (or other pet) would rate on some sort of kindness/empathy test that both humans and pets might take. I do agree that many people focus on their pet because they feel that the pet is a source of unconditional affection (I hesitate to bring the word "love" into the discussion.)

 

But as I mentioned, simply from a emotional, moral, or intellectual quotient (in comparison with humans), animals don't really even understand the concept of kindness, much less struggle over ethical dilemmas as, say, Hamlet was portrayed as doing.

 

Indeed, empathy and kindness pretty much require the ability to identify with another creature. If I am in the dumps because I am going through a divorce or in agony because I burnt my hand on the stove, I don't think my cat can identify with my suffering, or care that much even if he could. Also, I am sure if there was a shortage of food in the house in the middle of a blizzard, and all that was left were cans of cat food that I could eat, unlike my friends (who admittedly can be a bit unkind and unpleasant at times), my cat neither realizes that I need his food to live, nor, if he did, would care two hoots....he would just go ahead an pig out (no offense meant to pigs...just a manner of speech).

 

But yes, often what people see as affection is learned behavior for their own benefit, and is rather fake and false. Certainly this could apply to both pets and people. In business circles, this is referred to as schmoozing. Indeed, once the initial glow wears off, the looks fade, and the bank account bottoms out, many a person is quick to seek divorce and look elsewhere, and what seemed like eternal and deep love goes out the window. As far as science is concerned, concepts such as actual unselfishness and even free will are on thin ice.

 

In any case, I would agree with those who point out that the affection most people receive from pets is quite shallow and based on the pets instincts for security, protection, physical contact, food, and nothing more. The problem I have with many pets and animals in this regard is that they will bond with anything that walks like a duck (or whatever) or has a pair or more of milk producing ducts, as many a YouTube video will show you these days. When it comes to affection, I prefer mine to be served with a bit of intellectual awareness on the part of all concerned, not just some basic animal instinct.

Edited August 22, 2016 by disarray

[ModernArtist25]

Do most human species truly love unconditionally?

 

IF your spouse cheats on you multiple times, would you stay with her? IF your best friend kills one of your relatives, would you still talk to him? IF your uncle molests your daughter and impregnate her, would you lose all love for him?

 

Can love really have no IFs? Up to what certain point can you honestly TRULY love someone?

Edited August 22, 2016 by ModernArtist25

[DrP]

I don't think so - in some societies we actually kill our children for bringing shame on the family by dating a person from the wrong background or colour... that and many many more atrocities that we are capable of - there is no unconditional love there. I think it is a choice. You choose to be nice - some religious practices, I think, can help you be nicer but I only say that because that was how I learned about not judging people, helping people even if you dislike them, unconditional love. I think you can learn to forgive - it doesn't always come naturally and in some cases, as you pointed out, it can be hard.

[freekundli]

I think a lot of people do it out of concern for animals where animals are pretty helpless compared to humans. May be this is main reason..

[DrP]

Observing one or two people from my own family who seemed to love animals more than humans I think I can say that their reasons for doing so were stated as "Animals have pure soles - they are perfect and can do no wrong"... Seeminly meaning that they are forgiven for their selfishness, murder, viciousness and greed as they know no better and act on instinct or do not have the cognitive ability to make proper decisions about good and evil. I think this comes from a belief that humans are not animals and have free will. Even so, I would challenge them that they need to love their fellow humans more (if they were to show selfless love).

 

As much as I loved these people, and I found their love for animals admirable (A love a kind of share to an extent).... I found that the bitterness towards humans and the unconditional showering of love onto their pets whilst ignoring or neglecting humans close to them made me cringe and feel a bit sick.

 

 

PS - as for animals being helpless - this is relative - as Phi suggested - drop a strong fit human into the middle of the Atlantic and see who is helpless then.

Edited August 23, 2016 by DrP

[StringJunky]

Do most human species truly love unconditionally?

 

IF your spouse cheats on you multiple times, would you stay with her? IF your best friend kills one of your relatives, would you still talk to him? IF your uncle molests your daughter and impregnate her, would you lose all love for him?

 

Can love really have no IFs? Up to what certain point can you honestly TRULY love someone?

Imo the only time one really gives anything resembling unconditional love is to ones babies and toddlers until they start to show some sort of autonomy and responsibility. It is a necessary state to have a wide margin of tolerance to give them the space to develop and make all their early self-induced errors in a safe and watchful environment;.

Edited August 23, 2016 by StringJunky

[Prometheus]

Can love really have no IFs? Up to what certain point can you honestly TRULY love someone?

 

It's possible, if hard, to love someone and still leave them. It's about doing what you think best for all involved.

 

Also, is love just one emotion? I vaguely recall reading in some psychology book that love (or was it happiness?) is actually 8 distinct emotions.

[ModernArtist25]

Prometheus, you said it is possible to love someone and still leave them. When you said "leave", do you mean just not being physically there but still talking and connecting with the person?

[koti]

A loose, non scientific and most probably subjective personal observation:
People who unnaturaly strongly love animals and express it often on social media and in real life tend to be infantile emotionally and tend to be lacking the ability to create sustainable inter-human emotions.

 

PS. I realy like all kinds of animals.

Edited August 25, 2016 by koti

[iNow]

Or, they're from a different culture. Japan, for example.