What pet herp is best?

[Hellbender]

I have been wondering about what kind of pet I want to get once I move in with my girlfriend. I am definitely set that I want some form of medium or large type of reptile, but I don't know which one would be best. Here are my options; Bearded dragons are friendly and easy to keep. They are a good option, but I kind of wanted something more interesting. Varanids such as water monitors are said to be aggressive at first, and require large enclosures but are beautiful and make great pets. Snakes such as ball pythons or kingsnakes are beautiful and easy to handle, but I don't really want anything that has to eat live food. Turtles can be interesting, but I have had Red-Eared sliders that were completely boring. There is a wood turtle in the herp lab at school that is very friendly and attractive, but I don't know if they are available for the pet trade. I guess I am indecisive, but given the long life span of reptiles, its a commitment worth evaluating.

[Flareon]

I think you have a good attitude toward this, because yes, you're right, it's a commitment. Important thing is to deeply research which species would be the most compatible for you and your girl. One advice for buying herps: Start Small. And Start Cheap. You can always add to your family later as you become more experienced keeping them. You don't want to fall in love with the sheer beauty with a species (I know, it's hard to resist) and pay a sizable sum to get a stunning rainbow boa just to have him fall ill on you or turn unsociable.

 

If you want interesting, a healthy iguana can't be beat. Many people turn up their noses on these guys because they are so "common." But train one and you'll see it for what it is--an individual as any cat or dog. You can train him on a leash, ride him on your shoulder, carry him in a pouch, take him to the park, and nothing is more entertaining than watching your Iggie swim gracefully in your bathtub...and there will be more info on him available.

 

Here's a good source. Let me know if you want more, and I'll look.

 

http://www.petstation.com/herplib.html#ARTICLES

[BenSon]

My bro found an enormous diamond/carpet python in someones roof, we think he used to be someones pet because after a couple of day we could pick him up and handle him. That was pretty sweet so i'd suggest one of those guys, he ws seriously long about (he was eaisly over five foot).

 

~Scott

[AzurePhoenix]

Red-footed tortoises are beautiful, cool and have great personalities, and are relatively easy to care for with the proper set-up. Leopard Geckos are easy and excellent, and come in any practically color you want, but I think would be too small. Maybe a blue-tongued skink? Collared Lizards are also cool, but can be wiley and have nasty bites.

[klanger]

I think you also need to involve your girlfriend in this decision, that way there can be no "unsaid" problems starting off between the two of you when you move in with her.

[Hellbender]

Thanks for all the info guys. To address klanger's question, my girlfriend is involved with the decision, and you are right, I shoukd have mentioned that she is a big part of my decision. She doesn't really want me to have anything I will have to feed small live mammals to, such as a kingsnake or boa. Other than that, she doesn't really care. I mentioned it as an option simply becuase there might be ways around having to do this. I never actually considered iguanas, I guess becuase I always thought the individual lizards and their huge enclosures were really expensive. But that changed when I went to a pet store near school that was selling one for twelve bucks. Not much a demand for them anymore, I guess. Iguanas, as well as is everthing Phoenix and BenSon suggested, are good options. I might have also clarified that I have been researching this a lot lately (peteducation.com is my main resource) and decided I want something large that I can handle. Again, thanks for the help guys.

[Mokele]

Personally, I'd strongly recommend *against* Iguanas. They've wonderful animals, but are definitely *not* a first-time pet lizard. The reasons for this are twofold:

 

1) Iguanas are friggin huge, and require *very* large cages. Because they're arboreal, the cages have to be quite tall. For an adult ig, I'd go with nothing short of a 4 foot by 8 foot by 6 foot tall cage.

 

2) They have extremely complex diets. As pure veggie-eaters, they need to have a wide range of fruits and veggies availible, in precisely the right proportions with certain specific foods. You could write novel-length books about feeding themn properly, and spend over $20/week. Everythinhg has to be fresh, and you need to obsessively check calcium-phosphorous ratios and the presence of oxalates (which interfere with calcium absorption). Other reptiles eat veggies too (bearded dragons and blue-tongue skinks, for example), but will also eat meat/insects, which *drasticly* reduces the chances that you'll make an error in nutrition that could cripple or kill your pet.

 

Another way of putting it: I've been keeping reptiles for over 12 years and I don't feel up to owning an Ig. Their diet is just a *huge* pain in the ass.

 

----------------

 

Ok, as for the rest:

 

turtles/tortoises: I do know wood turtles are availible, but I'm also pretty sure they're not as cheap as other species. In general, most chelonians aren't "pick up and play with" animals, thought they can be interesting to observe and interact with (like letting them roam your room for a few hours every so often). The main caveat is do not buy a snapper or alligator snapper. With the former, you'll be missing fingers, with the latter, your whole hand.

 

lizards: I'll break them down into three keeping-categories (without regard for phylogeny, but with regard to care and disposition).

 

Small lizards: these are things like small geckos, anoles, etc. They're easy to keep, usually eat insects, and almost never tame. A few excpetions like the leopard gecko do, but most always regard humans are big predators. The can often live their whole lives in a 20-gal tank.

 

Medium lizards: These are things like beardies, dwarf monitors (ridge-tails are apparently very cool and rarely top 2 feet), blue-tongue skinks, etc. The diet can be be anything from veggies-only to pure carnivore, with many in-betweens. Most of the lizards in pet shops in this range can be tamed quite well, but require larger cages, though rarely more than about 2 feet by 4 feet, and often about 2/3rds of that. I personally recommend the 3 species I listed above. Blue-tongues and slow, docile, smooth to the touch, but also funny-looking and omnivores. Beardies are higher-energy, but still very tame, a bit spikey but handleable, and omnivorous (moving more towards veggies with age). Ridge-tailled monitors (Varanus acanthurus or "Ackies") are about 2 feet long, high-energy, tameable, and exclusive insectivores/carnivores, but require a larger cage (2 x 4 foot).

 

Large lizards: These are things like igs, rock iguanas, med and large monitors, and tegus. The first two are 100% herbivores, so I don't recommend them. The latter two... They're great animals, they really are. Tame (if you get the right species), interesting, smart, handlable (assuming you get the right species), and often very pretty...and huge eating machines. Monitors and tegus will go through several mice a week (but will readily eat pre-killed), and require *huge* cages. My tegu is in a 3 foot by 6 foot cage (he's 4 feet long), and I feel guilty because I feel I should get him a larger cage. A water monitor will need a cage no less than 4 foot by 8 foot, preferrably around 5 foot by 10 foot. Plus, with large lizards, if you do screw up and get bitten, it causes a lot more damage by far than even medium lizards. A big beardie might break the skin, a big monitor can tear your hand off before you even know what happened.

 

Snakes: In general, the cage should have a perimeter twice the snake's length. A 4 foot snake needs a 3 x1 foot cage, but a 12 foot snake needs a 4 by 8 cage. Also, all commonly availible pet snakes not only will eat dead mice, but *should*; live prey can seriously injure the snake.

 

Boas and pythons are very nice snakes, usually very pretty and often very laid-back (there are some exceptions, like all tree boas/pythons, some retics, and african rocks). However, they're also huge, and require huge cages. Furthermore, handling a truly large snake is actually quite difficult. My boa is almost 9 feet, and he's just at the size that I can deal with; any bigger and I'd need a second person. Even small boas are much stronger than same-size colubrids (advanced snakes, which are basically everything on the pet market that isn't a boa or python); the 4 foot corn snakes in my lab arepositively wimpy compared to the grip of my 3 foot ball python. Small species like Balls can make good pets, but balls tend to go off their food for no reason and for long periods (several months), though they don't seem to suffer as a result. Carpet and diamond pythons are nice, but large and nasty when young. My advice is to avoid this group or, if you get one, handle an adult first to see how hard it'll be. Also, they live for an excedingly long time; 20 years is average, and one ball python lived for 50 years.

 

Colubrids are a very large group, which contain most of the popular pet snakes like kingsnakes, rat snakes, corn snakes, beauty snakes, and such, as well as the vast bulk of the snake species (1700 species out of 2700 snake species). Commonly availible ones, like kings, rats and corns will readily accept dead prey, rarely get to large sizes (most top out at 6 feet), but aren't so small you're afraid to handle them (adults are usually 3-4 feet), aren't anywhere near as strong as same-sized boids, and are usually extremely tame. Babies might need some work, but adult are generally very docile. They're also more active than boas, and tend to move about the cage rather than just sitting there. For snakes, they're the ideal starter pet. Plus, they aren't short-lived; 15 years is average, and they reach adulthood by 2. There's a huge variety availible of all sorts, both in terms of species and unusual pattern variations produced by selective breeding.

 

---------

 

General stuff aside, I'd recommend either a colubrid like a king or corn snake, or a medium lizard like a bearded dragon.

 

Mokele

[Mokele]

Oh, almost forgot, expense:

 

Torts aren't very expensive, except for caging, animal purchase, and veggies.

 

Turtles are a bit more expensive, because you have to add a filter to their tank.

 

Large anything, be it snakes or lizards, are very expensive on account of the large cage (my tegu's enclosure cost me $200, and I built it myself, for 1/2 the price of commercially availible cages of that size).

 

Lizards are also more expensive than snakes for 2 reasons:

1) they need proportionally more room, therefore a bigger cage

2) they require UVB light, and thus expensive lighting setups

 

Veggies are more expensive than rodents if you buy frozen rodents and have them shipped in large numbers, thus saving on the shipping, but shipping along is over $26 or so, and therefore only balances out for orders of hundreds of mice. But the mice don't ever go bad.

 

Once you've picked a species, I'll be more than happy to help explain the required set-up (or even tell you the required setup for a handful of species once you've narrowed it down, if it'll be a deciding factor).

 

Mokele

[Flareon]

Personally' date=' I'd strongly recommend *against* Iguanas. They've wonderful animals, but are definitely *not* a first-time pet lizard. The reasons for this are twofold:

 

1) Iguanas are friggin huge, and require *very* large cages. Because they're arboreal, the cages have to be quite tall. For an adult ig, I'd go with nothing short of a 4 foot by 8 foot by 6 foot tall cage.

 

2) They have extremely complex diets. As pure veggie-eaters, they need to have a wide range of fruits and veggies availible, in precisely the right proportions with certain specific foods. You could write novel-length books about feeding themn properly, and spend over $20/week. Everythinhg has to be fresh, and you need to obsessively check calcium-phosphorous ratios and the presence of oxalates (which interfere with calcium absorption). Other reptiles eat veggies too (bearded dragons and blue-tongue skinks, for example), but will also eat meat/insects, which *drasticly* reduces the chances that you'll make an error in nutrition that could cripple or kill your pet.

 

Another way of putting it: I've been keeping reptiles for over 12 years and I don't feel up to owning an Ig. Their diet is just a *huge* pain in the ass.

 

[/quote']

 

You are right about that. I was answering Hellbender's question of which species would be "more interesting than bearded dragons," and I got carried away with iguana-praise, forgetful of the trouble involved.

 

Another thing: Hellbender, don't buy your enclosure from a pet store, they will rip you off. Unlike for fish, you do not need a watertight tank to keep a lizard, so look around in yard sales and crassifieds for a cheap used one if you can. Just sure there is no broken glass, the structure is sound, and you disinfect thoroughly.

[RedAlert]

What about a turtle?

[Mokele]

You are right about that. I was answering Hellbender's question of which species would be "more interesting than bearded dragons," and I got carried away with iguana-praise, forgetful of the trouble involved.

 

They're very cool animals, no doubt about it. My GF wants one, and my sole condition was that she deals with the veggies.

 

As for cooler than a beardie, the commonly availible ones would be: Crested geckos (a bit delicate the handle, but still handlable), dwarf spiny-tailed monitors (large-ish at 2 feet with more space requirements), frilled dragons (the australian ones with the huge neck frill that pops out), basilisks and water dragons.

 

What about a turtle?

 

Some of the smaller species, such a diamond terrapins or map turtles, maybe. The problem is that red-ears and other sliders grow to larger than a dinner plate and need very large tanks.

 

Mokele

[AzurePhoenix]

Oh Wise Master of All that is Scaly, is it possible that you know how expensive (ballpark) red-footed tortoises are? Or if they need anything particularly special that I might overlook? I'm thinkng about getting one or two, but I can't find too much good info.

[Mokele]

is it possible that you know how expensive (ballpark) red-footed tortoises are?

 

Looks like around about $150, from what I can see on this site.

 

Or if they need anything particularly special that I might overlook? I'm thinkng about getting one or two, but I can't find too much good info.

 

A quick google yeilded an abundance of care sheets, with this one and this one seeming to be the best.

 

Mokele

[AzurePhoenix]

Doy! *Slap to forehead* The internet!! I've been searching pet-care manuals and books.

[Skye]

Best ones I've had were small turtles I caught. I had one good one that was very active, and had had a permanent smile on his beak so he always looked happy. He used to love catching moths I threw into the tank with him. He was small, shell maybe 4 inches long, but he could eat moths that were 3 inches long.

[AzurePhoenix]

Do you have an idea what type they were?

[Hellbender]

Thanks a lot for the info, Mokele. I do like colubrid constrictors, and you made a great case for them. The reason I don't already have a herp is that I admittedly still live at home and my mother won't let me (man, do I feel like a loser lol) A lot of resources I read are from vets, but I think its better to get the info directly from a herpetologist who owns herps. My girlfriend is not afriad of snakes, which is good, but again, she won't let me keep anything that I need to feed live rodents too (she has a pet rat and loves it). What sort of dead prey do they prefer? I assume it would be mice.

[Hellbender]

You are right about that. I was answering Hellbender's question of which species would be "more interesting than bearded dragons," and I got carried away with iguana-praise, forgetful of the trouble involved.

Don't get me wrong; I love bearded dragons, but with all the varieties and interesting options, I kinda wanted to go against the grain (thats just the way I am). Beardies are popular herps, in fact, I dare say the cause-du-jour these days (in the 80's it was iguanas, right).

Another thing: Hellbender, don't buy your enclosure from a pet store, they will rip you off. Unlike for fish, you do not need a watertight tank to keep a lizard, so look around in yard sales and crassifieds for a cheap used one if you can. Just sure there is no broken glass, the structure is sound, and you disinfect thoroughly.

You are right, but America is capitalist, so getting ripped off is inevitable . But thanx for the advice. There are actually pet stores around here that have some good deals on tanks. I think besides the animal, the tank is the single biggest expense.

[husmusen]

Carpet snakes are fun, and in Queensland free(unoffically) if you catch

your own.

 

Cheers.

[Mokele]

Do you have an idea what type they were?

 

Given that Skye is in australia, I suspect they're some form of Pleurodire turtle (commonly called side-necked, though many don't have very long necks). As such, you're not likely to find them in the US pet trade for less than several hundred. Given that AU has a total import/export ban on live animals, I suspect you won't find that particular species at all.

 

What sort of dead prey do they prefer? I assume it would be mice.

 

Yep, most feed just fine on frozen mice. I get mine here.

 

Carpet snakes are fun, and in Queensland free(unoffically) if you catch your own.

 

Adults are pretty nice, but babies are very nippy. They're also nearly $100 each outside of AU. Plus, given the size and strength of most of genus Morelia, I wouldn't recommend them as first time pets.

 

Mokele

[Skye]

Do you have an idea what type they were?

Pretty sure it was Emydura macquarii (Macquarie turtle). Not sure on the subspecies though.

 

The thing is that the species doesn't matter too much, I don't think. It's most important to get one that has a good personality.