Help a non native speaker of English understand this

[Alfred001]

I speak English pretty darn well, but I can't make heads or tails of this:

 

A sample was taken from The Supplement to the OxJord
English Dictionary (OEDS) (1972-86) using the following
method. The single-digit number 5 was chosen at random
from a table of random numbers. Every fifth word was
taken from each double page of the OEDS,

 

 

Its the last sentence I don't understand, what the heck does he mean by double page? Does he mean every second page? When I google double page it seems to mean simply a book spread out, so both the left and the right page together, but if that were the case, why wouldn't he simply say "every fifth word was taken from each page?"

I guess it IS a LITTLE bit different in that if you go every fifth word, once you reach the end of the page, if you're counting by double pages, then you carry over, whereas if you are counting by single pages then you don't carry over, but start from the beginning at the next page.

 

Is double page some kind of set phrase I'm not familiar with?

Edited August 27, 2016 by Alfred001

[StringJunky]

I speak English pretty darn well, but I can't make heads or tails of this:

 

 

Its the last sentence I don't understand, what the heck does he mean by double page? Does he mean every second page? When I google double page it seems to mean simply a book spread out, so both the left and the right page together, but if that were the case, why wouldn't he simply say "every fifth word was taken from each page?"

 

I guess it IS a LITTLE bit different in that if you go every fifth word, once you reach the end of the page, if you're counting by double pages, then you carry over, whereas if you are counting by single pages then you don't carry over, but start from the beginning at the next page.

 

Is double page some kind of set phrase I'm not familiar with?

When you open a book, you see two pages side-by-side; that's a double page. Ignore the first page and last page because they are not double pages.

Edited August 27, 2016 by StringJunky

[swansont]

Every fifth word was taken from the pair of pages, not each page. Implying you didn't restart the count as you went from the left page to the right page.

[Strange]

I speak English pretty darn well, but I can't make heads or tails of this:

 

 

"Double page" is quite an unusual term. It is, I think, most commonly used in the phrase "double page spread" which means a magazine/newspaper article which is printed across the two pages (i.e. treating the two pages as one).

[blue89]

I speak English pretty darn well, but I can't make heads or tails of this:

 

 

Its the last sentence I don't understand, what the heck does he mean by double page? Does he mean every second page? When I google double page it seems to mean simply a book spread out, so both the left and the right page together, but if that were the case, why wouldn't he simply say "every fifth word was taken from each page?"

 

I guess it IS a LITTLE bit different in that if you go every fifth word, once you reach the end of the page, if you're counting by double pages, then you carry over, whereas if you are counting by single pages then you don't carry over, but start from the beginning at the next page.

 

Is double page some kind of set phrase I'm not familiar with?

 

actually ,I think this is not so difficult text ,but I see there exist native englishes too. so ,probably I will not criticize if they don't agree my opinion

I understood about your question

 

"this was like a routine that it had been given/taken each fifth words by (each) two page"

other expressions are quite easy...

I recomend that you use your brain in such cases. (think this quetsion : "what might the author tell there?" then think othjer expressions (previous ,latter)

and don't fear to respond when you decide you are thinking right.

Edited August 28, 2016 by blue89

[John Cuthber]

 

actually ,I think this is not so difficult text ,but I see there exist native englishes too. so ,probably I will not criticize if they don't agree my opinion

I understood about your question

 

"this was like a routine that it had been given/taken each fifth words by (each) two page"

other expressions are quite easy...

I recomend that you use your brain in such cases. (think this quetsion : "what might the author tell there?" then think othjer expressions (previous ,latter)

and don't fear to respond when you decide you are thinking right.

Do you understand that saying "I recomend that you use your brain in such cases." is insullting?

[blue89]

Do you understand that saying "I recomend that you use your brain in such cases." is insullting?

 

it is not insulting why that is was not the meaning something like you have understood.

I just meant ,at such cases ;

 

1) feel relax

2)believe you will achieve

3) feel confident

4) think and ask "what is your own idea?"

5) survey the text and other parts

6)control it

7) express it with no fear

 

 

that was not the same thing you supposed

probbably any humanist will never insult anyone.

[Strange]

 

it is not insulting why that is was not the meaning something like you have understood.

 

 

You may not have meant it as insulting, but it is!

[John Cuthber]

 

it is not insulting why that is was not the meaning something like you have understood.

I just meant ,at such cases ;

 

1) feel relax

2)believe you will achieve

3) feel confident

4) think and ask "what is your own idea?"

5) survey the text and other parts

6)control it

7) express it with no fear

 

 

that was not the same thing you supposed

probbably any humanist will never insult anyone.

It is, in fact, insulting.

Whether you meant it to be or not.

So, when (ironically in this thread) a native speaker of the language tells you something is insulting the correct response is not to tell them that it isn't.

The correct response is to apologise,find out why it's a problem, and not do it again.

[Ophiolite]

What tends to exacerbate the insult is that Alfred001 (the OP) clearly has used his brain, has thought carefully about the meaning and has recognised that he still doesn't get it. He has then been relaxed and confident (and smart enough) to ask for help.

 

I am sure, blue, that your intentions were good. It is just the outcome that was ****ed up.

[StringJunky]

What tends to exacerbate the insult is that Alfred001 (the OP) clearly has used his brain, has thought carefully about the meaning and has recognised that he still doesn't get it. He has then been relaxed and confident (and smart enough) to ask for help.

 

I am sure, blue, that your intentions were good. It is just the outcome that was ****ed up.

It's a language thing, I think. It's like a non-native speaker saying: " You will sit down" instead of "Would you like a seat?"

Edited August 29, 2016 by StringJunky

[John Cuthber]

It's a language thing, I think. It's like a non-native speaker saying: " You will sit down" instead of "Would you like a seat?"

Undoubtedly, but when a native speaker tells you "Do you realise that's not how we say it" you shouldn't say "Yes it is".

[DrKrettin]

I think blue89 needs to be a little more "elegant" in how he expresses himself.

[geordief]

I think blue89 needs to be a little more "elegant" in how he expresses himself.

Do we need a "nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat " emoticon?

Edited August 29, 2016 by geordief

[Alfred001]

 

it is not insulting why that is was not the meaning something like you have understood.

I just meant ,at such cases ;

 

1) feel relax

2)believe you will achieve

3) feel confident

4) think and ask "what is your own idea?"

5) survey the text and other parts

6)control it

7) express it with no fear

 

 

that was not the same thing you supposed

probbably any humanist will never insult anyone.

 

Thanks for standing up for me, guys, but I really think this guy is yanking your leg . C'mon, "first step relax?" This is not a serious post

[Ophiolite]

 

Thanks for standing up for me, guys, but I really think this guy is yanking your leg . C'mon, "first step relax?" This is not a serious post

Read all his other posts. I think he is serious. There is a disconnect with reality.

Cheers.

[blue89]

hi ;

 

sorry to be late for reply!

I request your kind understandings because of traffic among difficult academic rseraches. and remember please I am trying to research under very difficult life conditions. so ,once again I request your kind understandings

 

of course I accept that my English language is not advanced. and surely I do not believe that it would be advanced because of its "pronounciation".

But I don't accept that it was so bad like the level had/has been told by someone.

I do not doubt that some members have good qualifications ,especailly : "Arete, CharonY , ajb , Strange ,Studiot ,Imatfaal , hallsofivy ...etc" all these are already known (note I also appreciate : hallsofivy ,ajb & studiot,ajb is quite polite and/or elegant,hallsof ivy is wise)

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)

it was more relevant to educational systems and design of brain system ...

for further and more correct understandings ,I rquest you to check the references below. that idea was not belonging me , was only belonging an idea which was abstract of educational reseraches. sorry for every discussion if there exists eny type of unethic expression in case of me.

 

1) onassen D H., K. L Peck and B G. Wilson. Learning With Technology: A. Constructivisit Perspective New Jersey, Prentice Hall, 1999.

 

2) Lin X et al”lnstractional Desingn and Development of Learning Communities.

3) Marlowe, B and M. L Page. Creating and Sustaining the Constructivist Classrom, USA, Corwin Press 1998.

4) Selley, Nıck. The Art of Constructivist Teaching in The Primary School, London, David Fulton Publishers, 1999.

 

5) Wilson, Brent G Reflections on Constructivism and lnstructional Design, Denver, Englewood Cliiffs NJ. Educational Technology Publications, 1997.

 

6) Perkins David N “The Many Faces of Constructivısm.” Educational Leadership, Novenber199:6-11

 

7) Marlowe, B and M. L Page. Creating and Sustaining the Constructivist Classrom, USA, Corwin Press 1998.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/97886-help-a-non-native-speaker-of-english-understand-this/

8) About Teaching and Learning: A Constructivist Perspective”, American Journal of Education 100, no. 3,1993, ss. 354-95; Tapio Puolimatka, “Constructivism, Knowledge,and Manipulation”, Journal of Philoso

 

9) 0Erickson,Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses tothe Challenge of Postmodernism, GrandRapids. Baker, 1998, .18.

 

10) Richard Tarnas,The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas that have Shaped OurWorldview, New York: Ballantine, 1991, .396-397

 

11) apio Puolimatka, “Constructivism, Knowledge, and Manipulation”, Journal of Philosophy ofEducation,1999, http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/1999/puolimatka.asp

********************************************

please do not hesitate to ask any question or to criticize , I request you to provide/state at least one evidence for your critique. actually you will everytime be free to criticize ,why this is the manner of science as I know. but unfortunately the time is very difficult problem now for me , my life is under bad conditions. (in my opinion this cannot mean the weakness which is belonging my personality, and as it expresed repeatedly I generally would not prefer to tell the difficulties of my life or private life according to general ethical contexts and my experiences.)

 

Thanks for your politeness.

 

Dear Editor , probably there will exist off topic conversations in my this last comment. please determine it whether it is forbidden to share such explanations and I cannot reach the forum's rules now.

apologies for any type of incorrectness

(A NOTATION : I have experience in education (official) for ~3 year. (I had studied as a math teacher. )

 

blue

Edited September 6, 2016 by blue89

[Phi for All]

but unfortunately the time is very difficult problem now for me , my life is under bad conditions.

 

Then you should learn to edit yourself better. There is absolutely no reason for you to respond to a thread in the Lounge about explaining something in the English language. Know your limitations! You can't be good at everything, and your English needs a LOT of improvement. Spend your valuable time where it's most meaningful. You are NOT an English teacher.

[blue89]

 

Then you should learn to edit yourself better. There is absolutely no reason for you to respond to a thread in the Lounge about explaining something in the English language. Know your limitations! 1)You can't be good at everything, 2)and your English needs a LOT of improvement. Spend your valuable time where it's most meaningful. 3)You are NOT an English teacher.

 

1) sure!

anyone cannot be good at everything

2) improvement?? , I know and may provide you some references that such ones have no obstacle to write paper. however , if you are implying using this language in ELITE version. sorry ,I do not think the possibility for this at least for 8 years. look what I experienced ; my native language is not turkish. but I am speaking highly better than turkishes . intimately it is ELITE. but the actual reason for this was learning their culture well. (not only linguistic ,-usage of language-this is not difficult.)

we need to learn any language's culture before to allege that it was ELITE. so ,it does not seem at least for 8 years to happen (I mean that living england or US will be required) and also this will not be enough ,reading englishes' own culture & philosophical books will also be required (I know almost all of these for turkishes). this (requirement) is not my own idea at real, I recomemend that you check Ernest Gellner's some papers to confirm such contexts on this subject

3) I don't remember that I alleged this.

 

Then you should learn to edit yourself better ✔

and your English needs improvement. ✔

yes I agree to this idea. there is no contrast between my two last comment.

thanks for your idea/suggestion.

Edited September 6, 2016 by blue89

[Ophiolite]

hi ;

 

sorry to be late for reply!

I request your kind understandings because of traffic among difficult academic rseraches. and remember please I am trying to research under very difficult life conditions. so ,once again I request your kind understandings

 

of course I accept that my English language is not advanced. and surely I do not believe that it would be advanced because of its "pronounciation".

But I don't accept that it was so bad like the level had/has been told by someone.

I do not doubt that some members have good qualifications ,especailly : "Arete, CharonY , ajb , Strange ,Studiot ,Imatfaal , hallsofivy ...etc" all these are already known (note I also appreciate : hallsofivy ,ajb & studiot,ajb is quite polite and/or elegant,hallsof ivy is wise)

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)

it was more relevant to educational systems and design of brain system ...

for further and more correct understandings ,I rquest you to check the references below. that idea was not belonging me , was only belonging an idea which was abstract of educational reseraches. sorry for every discussion if there exists eny type of unethic expression in case of me.

 

1) onassen D H., K. L Peck and B G. Wilson. Learning With Technology: A. Constructivisit Perspective New Jersey, Prentice Hall, 1999.

 

2) Lin X et al”lnstractional Desingn and Development of Learning Communities.

3) Marlowe, B and M. L Page. Creating and Sustaining the Constructivist Classrom, USA, Corwin Press 1998.

4) Selley, Nıck. The Art of Constructivist Teaching in The Primary School, London, David Fulton Publishers, 1999.

 

5) Wilson, Brent G Reflections on Constructivism and lnstructional Design, Denver, Englewood Cliiffs NJ. Educational Technology Publications, 1997.

 

6) Perkins David N “The Many Faces of Constructivısm.” Educational Leadership, Novenber199:6-11

 

7) Marlowe, B and M. L Page. Creating and Sustaining the Constructivist Classrom, USA, Corwin Press 1998.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/97886-help-a-non-native-speaker-of-english-understand-this/

8) About Teaching and Learning: A Constructivist Perspective”, American Journal of Education 100, no. 3,1993, ss. 354-95; Tapio Puolimatka, “Constructivism, Knowledge,and Manipulation”, Journal of Philoso

 

9) 0Erickson,Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses tothe Challenge of Postmodernism, GrandRapids. Baker, 1998, .18.

 

10) Richard Tarnas,The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas that have Shaped OurWorldview, New York: Ballantine, 1991, .396-397

 

11) apio Puolimatka, “Constructivism, Knowledge, and Manipulation”, Journal of Philosophy ofEducation,1999, http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/1999/puolimatka.asp

********************************************

please do not hesitate to ask any question or to criticize , I request you to provide/state at least one evidence for your critique. actually you will everytime be free to criticize ,why this is the manner of science as I know. but unfortunately the time is very difficult problem now for me , my life is under bad conditions. (in my opinion this cannot mean the weakness which is belonging my personality, and as it expresed repeatedly I generally would not prefer to tell the difficulties of my life or private life according to general ethical contexts and my experiences.)

 

Thanks for your politeness.

 

Dear Editor , probably there will exist off topic conversations in my this last comment. please determine it whether it is forbidden to share such explanations and I cannot reach the forum's rules now.

apologies for any type of incorrectness

(A NOTATION : I have experience in education (official) for ~3 year. (I had studied as a math teacher. )

 

blue

You state that you welcome criticism ( though you earlier rejected mine as hurtful).

You ask that any criticism provide evidence to support it.

My best way of addressing this is to rewrite your post in proper English. you can compare the two versions and identify where and how you have gone wrong.

 

hi,

sorry for the late reply!

I request your kind understanding because I am very involved, at present, in difficult academic research. Also, please remember that I am trying to do this research under very difficult life conditions. So, once again I request your kind understanding.¹

 

Of course I accept that my English is not advanced. Certainly, I do not believe that it would be advanced because of its "pronunciation".² But I don't accept that it was as bad as the level that some have claimed.

 

I do not doubt that some members have good qualifications ,especially : Arete, CharonY , ajb , Strange ,Studiot ,Imatfaal , hallsofivy ...etc. All of these are already known.³ (Note that I also appreciate hallsofivy ,ajb & studiot, ajb for being polite or elegant, while hallsof ivy is wise.⁴)

 

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)⁵

 

 

^{1. Requesting someone's "kind understanding" is very old fashioned English. It would have been appropriate one hundred years ago. Not today. Also, you have already apologised in the first sentence. By "laying it on thick", asking to be forgiven then repeating the request makes you look desperate.}

 

^{2. This sentence is unclear. Do you mean that your spoken English is heavily accented? If so, that is irrelevant. The criticisms of your English are of your written words. If you meant something else you have not made that clear. Placing commas in the sentence can help clarify its meaning. Perhaps that is what you were missing.}

 

^{3. Did you mean to say "I already know they have good qualifications", or "I have already said that they have good qualifications", or something else entirely. The quality of your language is judged here by how clearly you communicate your meaning. Too often you fail to do so. If you persist in believing it is better than it is you will find it difficult to improve.}

 

^{4. This item is akin to a disaster. Why are you repeating the names of persons you have already named? Which attributes ( elegance, politeness) are you attributing to which people? Your readers should not have to read a sentence three or four times to get to an approximate meaning of what you are trying to say.}

 

^{5. I give up. There is just too much ambiguity. If you would even be courteous enough to do a spell check, use capitals at the start of sentences and stop apologising every five seconds then it might be possible to disentangle meaning from your posts without such effort. And while we are at it, please stop with the bold and coloured fonts. Such devices should be used sparingly, for effect, not as an all out assault on the senses of your readers.}

[geordief]

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)

 

I attempt to paraphrase this as "Judging from the above comments, my meaning was misunderstood (Actually I accept it was my own lack of clarity for which I apologize )

 

Any help Oph? (Do you think I am right?)

[blue89]

You state that you welcome criticism ( though you earlier rejected mine as hurtful).

You ask that any criticism provide evidence to support it.

My best way of addressing this is to rewrite your post in proper English. you can compare the two versions and identify where and how you have gone wrong.

 

hi,

sorry for the late reply!

I request your kind understanding because I am very involved, at present, in difficult academic research. Also, please remember that I am trying to do this research under very difficult life conditions. So, once again I request your kind understanding.¹

 

Of course I accept that my English is not advanced. Certainly, I do not believe that it would be advanced because of its "pronunciation".² But I don't accept that it was as bad as the level that some have claimed.

 

I do not doubt that some members have good qualifications ,especially : Arete, CharonY , ajb , Strange ,Studiot ,Imatfaal , hallsofivy ...etc. All of these are already known.³ (Note that I also appreciate hallsofivy ,ajb & studiot, ajb for being polite or elegant, while hallsof ivy is wise.⁴)

 

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)⁵

 

 

^{1. Requesting someone's "kind understanding" is very old fashioned English. It would have been appropriate one hundred years ago. Not today. Also, you have already apologised in the first sentence. By "laying it on thick", asking to be forgiven then repeating the request makes you look desperate.}

 

^{2. This sentence is unclear. Do you mean that your spoken English is heavily accented? If so, that is irrelevant. The criticisms of your English are of your written words. If you meant something else you have not made that clear. Placing commas in the sentence can help clarify its meaning. Perhaps that is what you were missing.}

 

^{3. Did you mean to say "I already know they have good qualifications", or "I have already said that they have good qualifications", or something else entirely. The quality of your language is judged here by how clearly you communicate your meaning. Too often you fail to do so. If you persist in believing it is better than it is you will find it difficult to improve.}

 

^{4. This item is akin to a disaster. Why are you repeating the names of persons you have already named? Which attributes ( elegance, politeness) are you attributing to which people? Your readers should not have to read a sentence three or four times to get to an approximate meaning of what you are trying to say.}

 

^{5. I give up. There is just too much ambiguity. If you would even be courteous enough to do a spell check, use capitals at the start of sentences and stop apologising every five seconds then it might be possible to disentangle meaning from your posts without such effort. And while we are at it, please stop with the bold and coloured fonts. Such devices should be used sparingly, for effect, not as an all out assault on the senses of your readers.}

 

 

Ophiolite :)

[Ophiolite]

according to the expressions which are above, presumably it has been understood incorrectly (I have told incorrect! , ok ,this is my own incorrectness and of course I apologise)

 

I attempt to paraphrase this as "Judging from the above comments, my meaning was misunderstood (Actually I accept it was my own lack of clarity for which I apologize )

 

Any help Oph? (Do you think I am right?)

That looks highly plausible to me. I couldn't see that when I read the original, but with your interpretation it makes sense. Good job!