Saturn and jupiter as moons of the sun

[granpa]

If the sun began as a rapidly growing and rapidly rotating 60 jupiter mass brown dwarf then it was at that time almost entirely metallic hydrogen surrounded by a thin (4000km) ocean of about 3.2 earth masses of liquid hydrogen.

Between the liquid hydrogen ocean and the metallic hydrogen there may have been a 1000 km thick layer of metallic oxygen and/or metallic carbon that was 100 times denser than liquid hydrogen and amounting to a little less than a saturn mass. (Based on the abundance of the elements it should have been 4000 km thick but I guess it becomes fully degenerate at 1000 km and sinks to the core of the protosun)

When the suns core finally collapsed it would have begun to spin so fast that its outermost layers of liquid hydrogen and metallic oxygen and metallic carbon would have been thrown out into space where it would have coalesced into a moon which would immediately begin receding from the rapidly rotating protosun due to tidal interactions.

If it continued to spin faster and faster then even part of its metallic hydrogen (now the outermost layer) would have been thrown out into space and would have formed a second, probably much more massive, moon which would also immediately begin receding due to tidal interactions.

Maybe, just maybe, saturn=1st moon and jupiter=2nd moon
I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility

This would also explain why hot Jupiters are so common

Even though the sun accounts for most of the mass of the solar system, Jupiter's orbital momentum accounts for the majority of the Solar System's angular momentum

Edited September 10, 2016 by granpa

[John Cuthber]

If the sun began as a rapidly growing and rapidly rotating 60 jupiter mass brown dwarf then it was at that time almost entirely metallic hydrogen surrounded by a thin (4000km) ocean of about 3.2 earth masses of liquid hydrogen.

 

Between the liquid hydrogen ocean and the metallic hydrogen there may have been a 1000 km thick layer of metallic oxygen ...

 

Or there may have been a layer of unicorn droppings.

The thing is that I can assert that the unicorn manure layer is right with just as much evidence as Granpa has put forward for his idea.

[granpa]

No I really don't think unicorn droppings is a reasonable possibility. I guess that's where we differ.

[Mordred]

I think you missed his point. You may be surprised to know that it is possible to calculate with formulas the distribution of elements at a given radius as disk forms.

 

Surprisingly enough those formulas involve a very simple principle. f=ma...

 

Heavier elements tend to collect closer to a star, lighter elements further out.

 

You haven't shown a single formula to support your claims. A good coverage is physics of the intergalactic medium.

 

Secondly spectography can identify composition of both stars and planets. Where is your spectographic research? One can easily discern various hydrogen isotopes via the Rayleigh scale. Or any other element.

 

Our solar system has tons of readily available spectographic datasets. Why haven't you examined them to measure element % at the layers you can examine.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Mordred

[granpa]

Yes.

Liquid hydrogen

Metallic (but not fully degenerate) oxygen

Metallic (degenerate) hydrogen

Metallic (and fully degenerate) oxygen

 

Lightest on top

Heaviest on bottom

 

That was the whole point

Edited September 10, 2016 by granpa

[Mordred]

again where is your data and formulas?

 

simple descriptions and random numbers are useless.

 

How can anyone verify your data and calculations if you don't present it?

 

and I'm not talking about a bunch of links to other peoples work. Present your own research... albiet other datasets are valid provided you give your interpretation of that data.

 

I nor others will simply accept your OP is accurate without the corresponding data and calculations.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Mordred

[granpa]

Jupiter would have been 1/60 of the mass of the protosun. The Moon is 1/80 of the mass of Earth.

[John Cuthber]

No I really don't think unicorn droppings is a reasonable possibility. I guess that's where we differ.

No.

Where we differ is that I think evidence is important- because, without it, you might as well be talking unicorn dung.

[Mordred]

Granpa what we need to see is your hydrodynamic fluid equations used to determine material thickness.

 

You will also require these equations for available materials during formation.

 

random guesses on thickness does not suffice.

[granpa]

if the sun began as a rapidly growing and rapidly rotating 60 jupiter mass brown dwarf then it was at that time almost entirely metallic hydrogen/helium surrounded by a thin (4000km) ocean of about 3 earth masses of liquid hydrogen/helium.

 

The pressure at the bottom of this ocean would have been

4000km * (0.0794g/cm^3) * 60*2.528(9.8m/s^2) in bar = 4.7 million bar

 

This is assuming that hydrogen becomes metallic hydrogen at about this pressure but hydrogen might not becomes metallic till 2-3 times that pressure in which case the ocean would be 2-3 times deeper. (saturn has at most 8 earth masses of liquid hydrogen)

Edited September 11, 2016 by granpa

[granpa]

The only weak point with this theory is that if hydrogen only comes in two flavors, liquid hydrogen and metallic hydrogen, then it's very hard to see how a planet could keep the same radius as its mass increases from 1 Jupiter Mass to 60 Jupiter masses. I'm thinking it may be necessary to suppose that metallic hydrogen comes in two forms, one much denser than the other. However the nice thing about that is that if that's true then an earlier process similar to the one described above could be responsible for the creation of Uranus and Neptune as well.