"Irrational ideologies of the left"

[CharonY]

It should be noted that there is big difference between things that are organized by the administration, faculty or students, respectively. If a student group wanted to organize a Magic the gathering tournament you probably do not want a bunch of people around that insult them as "neckbeard virgins" (what does that even mean?) and/or having people there that disrupt the event by claiming monopoly is the only game worth playing.

 

Is obsession with such a money and soul sucking game healthy? Probably not. But it is not the job of the uni to regulate that and if students rent a room or get permission to use one they (usually) are left to do their things as long as it does not violate uni policies. If it is organized by faculty, it is far more likely intended to be an educational event and should be moderated. That, however does include to minimize disruptions to enable a civil discourse.

If, for example some women make a point that they feel unsafe on campus, it is fine to cite crime statistics and point out to the safety measures on campus and tell them how to access them. However, if you decide to tell them to grow a pair (of neckbeards maybe?-still unsure what that means) and stop being pussies, you deserve to be kicked out for being a disruptive douchebag.

[dimreepr]

I'm done, you just can't fix stupid. You can't give people balls who clearly have vaginas between their legs.

 

 

You can't fix stupid, but one can call it out. for instance what makes you think gender has any bearing on this subject?

Edited September 16, 2016 by dimreepr

[Arete]

The irony of a straight white male saying there's no discrimination on his campus and then using a sexist slur as an insult is rather palpable.

[CharonY]

I'm done, you just can't fix stupid. You can't give people balls who clearly have vaginas between their legs.

 

And this clearly shows that you do not engage in the discussion in good faith. It appears that you were seeking the comfort of warmth of a safe echo chamber in which your preconceptions are amplified. As a side note, my irony meter just decided to kill itself.

[dimreepr]

 

And this clearly shows that you do not engage in the discussion in good faith. It appears that you were seeking the comfort of warmth of a safe echo chamber in which your preconceptions are amplified. As a side note, my irony meter just decided to kill itself.

 

 

I've long since decided, deployment is futile...

Edited September 16, 2016 by dimreepr

[Tampitump]

And assault/verbal abuse doesn't pose health risks?

Seriously dude? You guys criticize me for not having sound ideas, and you come up with horse shit like this? Assault IS a health risk. Verbal abuse? Nothing in my position supports verbal abuse. Verbal abuse needs to be punished. What I'm protesting is the idea that you can retreat to a designated area on oublic grounds wherein you're free from being challenged, and other people don't have the right to speak their mind aound you if you don't like what they're saying. You do not have the right to thought-police or word-police people in public.

[Strange]

Umm no because that has nothing to do with free speech and the free exchange of ideas or social change.

 

 

Neither does the concept of safe spaces. Unless you think your right to free speech means you have the right to pursue people everywhere (except their home) and abuse them.

Seriously dude? You guys criticize me for not having sound ideas, and you come up with horse shit like this? Assault IS a health risk. Verbal abuse? Nothing in my position supports verbal abuse.

 

 

But you don't think people should have a place where they can get some temporary escape from it.

 

 

 

You do not have the right to thought-police or word-police people in public.

 

And no one is suggesting that.

[Tampitump]

.

 

And this clearly shows that you do not engage in the discussion in good faith. It appears that you were seeking the comfort of warmth of a safe echo chamber in which your preconceptions are amplified. As a side note, my irony meter just decided to kill itself.

it would be irony if I was telling you that you had no right to say what you're saying. I'm merely pointing out your impotence and stupidity. Edited September 16, 2016 by Tampitump

[dimreepr]

.

it would be irony if I was telling you that you had no right to say what you're saying. I'm merely pointing out your impotence and stupidity.

 

 

Don't take a measure folks (disclaimer), I am a father.

[CharonY]

Seriously dude? You guys criticize me for not having sound ideas, and you come up with horse shit like this? Assault IS a health risk. Verbal abuse? Nothing in my position supports verbal abuse. Verbal abuse needs to be punished. What I'm protesting is the idea that you can retreat to a designated area on oublic grounds wherein you're free from being challenged,

You are aware that an university is not public grounds? Also, you claim that people should "man up" to discussion and be confronted with opposing views. Whereas when it happens to you, you start hurling insults. Unless of course, you think that is what "manning up" means.

Edited September 16, 2016 by CharonY

[Delta1212]

.

it would be irony if I was telling you that you had no right to say what you're saying. I'm merely pointing out your impotence and stupidity.

Impotence?

 

Also, saying "You're stupid" is not really pointing out someone's stupidity. It's just name-calling.

 

I'm done, you just can't fix stupid. You can't give people balls who clearly have vaginas between their legs.

[CharonY]

I've long since decided, deployment is futile...

Yeah, it is getting rather expensive and the purchasing department is getting on my case.

[Tampitump]

Okay, you guys are right. I support safe spaces now.

[Strange]

.

it would be irony if I was telling you that you had no right to say what you're saying.

 

 

That is not what safe spaces are about.

 

When I feel the need to get away form you for a while, I go to another forum. I'm sure that you find that reprehensible. I know you think you have the right to follow me anywhere and accuse me of being stupid and a regressive liberal. But I find it quite refreshing to go elsewhere for a while. Sorry.

[dimreepr]

Okay, you guys are right. I support safe spaces now.

 

 

This is winning a debate +1, I hate being right I never learn anything.

Edited September 16, 2016 by dimreepr

[CharonY]

Also, this is not what discussions are about. If one initiates one solely for the sake of winning one deprives oneself from the opportunity to utilize it as a learning experience.

[Tampitump]

I may be a total asshole, a piece of shit, a redneck, a fowl mouth, and a non-critical-thinker, but I'd wager we'd all be dead if everyone in the world were as obstinate and stubborn as the people here. Use science and skepticism to investigate the natural world all you want, but in many social issues, you have to speculate, you have to look at the big picture, you have to get a little spunk to you, you have to be a little reactionary. You can't break everything down to tiny fragments and analyse every minute detail of it, because there's hardly any difference between certain social issues when you look at them on the micro level. You have to look at the big picture, you have to look at the trends, and what certain social things are promoting, rather than the strict definitions of things. I agree that a safe space to get away from abusers and harassment does not sound like such a bad thing, but neither does using a calculator vs learning how to solve algebraic problems on my own. This type of stuff promotes a mentality that you don't have to deal with reality when you don't want to. The real world will not do this for the students when they leave college.

Also, this is not what discussions are about. If one initiates one solely for the sake of winning one deprives oneself from the opportunity to utilize it as a learning experience.

I'd agree with this if I didn't sense that you guys are deliberately opposing me because you don't like me. I say this because I've been accused of not providing evidence or reasons for my assertions directly after providing just that. Much of my evidence and reasons get flat out ignored on here, and asserted that I never defended my argument, when I exquisitely did. The people here are not being skeptical, they are being impotent and unresponsive. There's skepticism and high evidence standards, then there's just unresponsiveness, numbness. The lion has already mauled you, there's no time to sequence its genome to find out what its motivations may be.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Tampitump

[CharonY]

And why do you think do social sciences exist where people actual gather data and analyze them? Why would you think that an approach that works for something as complex as the natural world would suddenly break down if we look at one aspect of it (say, social interactions)?

Why do you think that in non-natural sciences opinions supersede evidence?

Specifically how do you look at the big picture if you only have your limited personal view on things? How do you look at trends if you do not have the data to plot them? In other words, how can we approach social aspects objectively if we exclusively use our own individual experiences? And if you do is it the least surprising that you won't find agreement unless you exclusively hang out with people who exclusively shared the same experience as you? How can you claim that your experience is reality whereas others are not?

 

How is that approach different from stating that vaccines are dangerous because "I think so"? And how is it then different from living in an echo chamber>

[Delta1212]

I'm opposing you because I think you are mistaken.

 

My opinion of someone has little bearing on whether or not I agree with them about anything.

[Tampitump]

And why do you think do social sciences exist where people actual gather data and analyze them? Why would you think that an approach that works for something as complex as the natural world would suddenly break down if we look at one aspect of it (say, social interactions)?

Why do you think that in non-natural sciences opinions supersede evidence?

Specifically how do you look at the big picture if you only have your limited personal view on things? How do you look at trends if you do not have the data to plot them? In other words, how can we approach social aspects objectively if we exclusively use our own individual experiences? And if you do is it the least surprising that you won't find agreement unless you exclusively hang out with people who exclusively shared the same experience as you? How can you claim that your experience is reality whereas others are not?

 

How is that approach different from stating that vaccines are dangerous because "I think so"? And how is it then different from living in an echo chamber>

I'm saying that at some point, skepticism turns into obstinate unresponsiveness. You'd be sitting there letting the lion maul you to death because no one has run F MRI scans on its brain to provide conclusive evidence for its intentions. That's my point.

[Strange]

I may be a total asshole, a piece of shit, a redneck, a fowl mouth, and a non-critical-thinker, but I'd wager we'd all be dead if everyone in the world were as obstinate and stubborn as the people here.

 

 

You seem to think that everyone should be the same. I'm sure there are some people who are willing and able to put up with the continuous daily abuse. There are others who need to get away from it occasionally. You might think that is weak, I just think it is human.

I'm saying that at some point, skepticism turns into obstinate unresponsiveness. You'd be sitting there letting the lion maul you to death because no one has run F MRI scans on its brain to provide conclusive evidence for its intentions. That's my point.

 

And it is a silly one.

I'm opposing you because I think you are mistaken.

 

My opinion of someone has little bearing on whether or not I agree with them about anything.

 

Seconded.

[Arete]

I'm not overanalyzing the problem, I'm countering your position which I find to be willfully ignorant, selfish and poorly supported.

 

You and I, as white, straight males don't get to dictate to people from minority groups when they are and aren't facing discrimination. We don't get to tell others when they do and don't require reprieve from that discrimination. The entire country is our "safe space". When people from groups facing discrimination and prejudice are given a voice to tell us about their experiences and how they can be improved, it's time for us to shut up and listen rather than pontificate from a position from no experience of the same discrimination.

 

I was at Yale when the safe space debate occurred and prima facie, it did seem like an overreaction by spoilt, entitled millennials. However, consider the background - only 7.6% of the student body is African American, and only 2.3% of the faculty. The discrimination faced is not overt name calling and harassment, it's more insidious, institutionalized and harder to quantify - yet exists and is apparent in the disproportionately small fraction of students of color at the school.

 

While an email saying that they are adults and should be able to figure out how not to offend each other an address it in a mature way if a classmate did offend them seems reasonable enough, and something that it is silly to get upset about, what the students were ultimately saying was that they faced challenges students from less diverse backgrounds did not, and they wanted an environment where those challenges were removed. Facing these challenges affected their ability to study and excel, and a space where they felt comfortable and safe would help them overcome the challenges they faced. It really doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.

 

Ultimately if you don't like the safe space, you can not go there. Its existence really isn't that big of a deal, or at least shouldn't be.

[MigL]

And Tampitytump is suggesting you can't stay in the safe space forever.

Eventually you have to leave the security of the college/university and go out in the real world.

 

No safe spaces out there !

[Tampitump]

I was at Yale when the safe space debate occurred and prima facie, it did seem like an overreaction by spoilt,

You'll have to excuse me for not being in the same education universe as you. I admit that I'm uninformed on pretty much every topic you can think of. I go to a community college with a 100% acceptance rate, and am from the rural south where diversity and higher education are all but discouraged for most of us. My parents are high school drop outs who are in the logging business. I do not go to an elite, Ivy league (or even remotely legitimate) college, and there is no universe wherein my upbringing would have fostered an ability for me to have the potential to go to one. Those are just facts that I will have to concede you.

 

 

Ultimately if you don't like the safe space, you can not go there. Its existence really isn't that big of a deal, or at least shouldn't be.

 

The point is that I have every right to go there and not be told that I'm offending someone's "safe space". Why should I care what triggers you? Get over it. And you still failed to see or acknowledge the big picture. Listen to what many tenured professors are saying about the encroachment of politically correct, postmodernist ideology into academic research. Like Gad Saad says, how can you teach biology properly when people assert that some gender/sex topics are "triggering topics". It is insane. Its okay to keep people from being legitimately oppressed, but safe spaces only weaken minorities by giving them a luxury that the real world will not provide them.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Tampitump

[swansont]

These few people made change because they dared bear it out under hard circumstances. If they had retreated to safe spaces, white supremacy would have never ended.

Which is completely irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about entire groups of marginalized people, not just these few, and who's to say that they would have "retreated" if the concept of safe spaces had existed?

 

Change happens when you grow some fucking testicles (not that anyone in this forum knows what its like to have those), join the debate, stand your ground, and demand the respect you deserve. YOu don't win debates by cutting off someone else's free speech, and demanding to be in a place where you can't be criticized in public.

So people don't have the right to choose whether or not they put themselves in harm's way?

 

I still haven't seen an adequate explanation about how this cuts off free speech. You do not have the right to say anything you want, whenever you want, and wherever you want. That's not what free speech is.

 

There is no one on my college campus (and I've been at all parts of it at nearly every part of the day) who is oppressing minorities or seeking to oppress minorities.

Bollocks. You haven't been every place at all times. That's impossible, so you don't know what's going on 99.99% of the place and time. You may have convinced yourself that since you don't see something, that something doesn't exist, but that doesn't make it the truth. Have you ever witnessed people having sex on campus? Do you really think it hasn't gone on somewhere else (and probably quite a lot of it) that you just don't see? According to your logic, if you didn't see it, it doesn't happen.

 

Your claim, literally taken, means you have to stand by the statement that nobody has ever made a derogatory remark to another that's based on race or sexual orientation. Nobody ever used spade, coon or any of their (nastier) relatives. Nobody has called someone queer or a faggot. Didn't happen in front of you, so it never happened at all. And you have the brass to call others delusional.

 

There aren't lynch mobs chasing people down out there. You are proposing a false dilemma.

You are proposing a straw man, with more straw than I thought possible. Who the hell said anything about lynch mobs?

 

There is hardly anything in the way of violent racial turmoil going on that is anywhere near the scope and scale of the 1960s. If it is happening, its not on college campuses (I'm sure you'll ask for conclusive, statistical evidence of this). Safe spaces are purely used to shelter people form criticism and allow them to not be challenged. And lets face it, they imply a certain hostility toward people of my demographic, white, heterosexual males, who are usually viewed as the oppressors, the bigots, the "privileged". I'm the scum of the fucking earth, didn't you know? They'd probably kick me out of a safe space because I don't score high enough in the oppression olympics.

 

More straw. Do you buy by the ton? I hope you get it wholesale.