Calling all knowledgable people! Please help!

[Guest GCSE dude]

Hello, I am a GCSE student studying Physics and was wondering if any knowledgable people could explain the alpha scattering experiment to me in plain english.There are a few things I don't understand these are detailed below..

~Alpha is positive if it was shot at an atom, it would not be repelled because an atom is not charged. Ions are charged

~I have been taught when the alphas are shot at the atom and they come close to the nucleus they change direction and are repelled by the nucleus because positive alpha repel the positive nucleus. How can the nucleus of an atom be charged...atoms are not charged...ions are.

 

I'm sorry if you couldn't understand me. I tend to go on a bit. If you can't help that's perfectly fine...but if you could I'd be most grateful as my GCSE's start in 3 weeks and I am most confused in ths area. Thank You!

[Johnny5]

Hello' date=' I am a GCSE student studying Physics and was wondering if any knowledgable people could explain the alpha scattering experiment to me in plain english.There are a few things I don't understand these are detailed below..

~Alpha is positive if it was shot at an atom, it would not be repelled because an atom is not charged. Ions are charged

~I have been taught when the alphas are shot at the atom and they come close to the nucleus they change direction and are repelled by the nucleus because positive alpha repel the positive nucleus. How can the nucleus of an atom be charged...atoms are not charged...ions are.

 

I'm sorry if you couldn't understand me. I tend to go on a bit. If you can't help that's perfectly fine...but if you could I'd be most grateful as my GCSE's start in 3 weeks and I am most confused in ths area. Thank You![/quote']

 

Do you know how to derive the Rutherford scattering formula?

 

I wrote down a quick derivation in my nuclear physics books, but I don't have it with me.

 

As i recall, you write down a "momentum triangle" and use the law of cosines.

 

The assumptions are built into the derivation of the formula.

 

Regards

[5614]

Johnny5 he's a GCSE student!!!

 

Basically protons are positively charged, neutrons have no charge and electrons are negatively charged.

 

Alpha radiation is made up of 2 protons and 2 neutrons.

 

The protons make it positive and neutrons don't change it because they're just neutral, nothing.

 

This means alpha radiation is positive.

 

So when it approaches an atom first on the outside of the atom theres the electrons, (which are negative), so the +alpha is attracted to it (opposite charges repel). but then as the +alpha gets near the +nucleus (nucleus and alpha are similar because theyre both neutrons and protons only) so they are the same charge (positive) and repel each other.

 

Ions.... are basically you know that the number of protons and electrons are normally the same, so if there's 8 protons there's 8 electrons so their charge cancels each other out so overall there is no charge, that's what you mean by an atom with no charge.

 

When electrons are gained or lost the atom becomes an ion.

 

Although an atom may not have a charge, the individual sub-atomic parts of it (protons, neutrons, electrons) do, it's just they all cancel each other out (except in ions).

 

(And no one go nitpicking, that's GCSE standard!)

[Johnny5]

Johnny5 he's a GCSE student!!!

 

Basically protons are positively ![/i])

 

I was wondering what that means.

 

What's GCSE stand for?

 

General science something or other.

 

 

Also 5614, IMO, you should use some mathematics in your explanation. Just an opinion this time though, I see clearly he wants a clear verbal explanation.

[5614]

general secondary certificate of education.... dunno, just made that up but i think it's right!

 

It's what you do in the UK when you are 16 (or 15 if you're really young!)

 

They're exams based on a 2 year course you start when you are 14.

[Johnny5]

general secondary certificate of education.... dunno' date=' just made that up but i think it's right!

 

It's what you do in the UK when you are 16 (or 15 if you're really young!)

 

They're exams based on a 2 year course you start when you are 14.[/quote']

 

IS there any reason to not use math? Because I can explain it using Coulomb's formula.

[5614]

Yeah three reasons:

 

1) It's not how you are meant to answer the question (and very sadly it's all about answering questions how you are meant to in this kinda exam)

 

2) It's not in the syllabus

 

3) A consequence of #2 is that the guy will not have a clue what you are on about unless they have done that out of school, and from the 1st post I am making an assumption he hasnt...

 

(I'm assuming they're a he because it's "dude", but appologies if I'm wrong!)

[Johnny5]

Yeah three reasons:

 

1) It's not how you are meant to answer the question (and very sadly it's all about answering questions how you are meant to in this kinda exam)

 

2) It's not in the syllabus

 

3) A consequence of #2 is that the guy will not have a clue what you are on about unless they have done that out of school' date=' and from the 1st post I am making an assumption he hasnt...

 

[i'](I'm assuming they're a he because it's "dude", but appologies if I'm wrong!)[/i]

 

Well, as you seem to know exactly what's going on, I will let you answer any further questions he has.

 

But to understand the answer, he needs to be shown Coulomb's formula.

 

But you know that.

 

Kind regards 5614

[5614]

You don't need coulomb's formula to understand that alpha (positive) is repelled by a nucleus which is also positive.

 

I just feel that after the first post and the level he seems to be at, going further than GCSE at this point in time, just before exams when it is not necessary nor needed and a lot more advance than he is (atm) it is not really required as such.

 

But really, no offense meant, it is always good to go deeper and learn, but there are times and palces and I just felt this was not one!

[Johnny5]

You don't need coulomb's formula to understand that alpha (positive) is repelled by a nucleus which is also positive.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I just feel that after the first post and the level he seems to be at' date=' going further than GCSE at this point in time, just before exams when it is not necessary nor needed and a lot more advance than he is (atm) it is not really required as such.

 

But really, no offense meant, it is always good to go deeper and learn, but there are times and palces and I just felt this was not one! [/quote']

 

I agree.

[Guest GCSE dude]

Thanks for all your help; it’s really nice that a lot of people have replied to my plea of help. 5614 you’re totally right the other explanations people have given are far too advanced. I have not been taught to use any formulae or any triangles. Your explanation was far by the best. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me, it’s really cleared things up for me.

As for everyone else that replied. Thanks for trying, I appreciate how hard it must be to know what’s in the GCSE syllabus if you’re not familiar with it.

Oh yeah. Before I go, I just I’d just like to say that I’m a girl. Sorry, the word “Dude” probably made you think differently. Dude is what my friends call me (Don’t ask it’s a long story) so I kept that as my username. Anyway thanks for all your help once again.