Fair or Bigoted Criticism?

[DrmDoc]

Here, yet again, we have an official in government exercising a measure of free speech to which he is not entitled. Mayor Charles Wasko of West York, PA (USA), posted to Facebook what he thought was a amusing picture of orangutans in a wheelbarrow with the caption, "Aw...moving day at the Whitehouse has finally arrived" (Associated Press). According to the AP article, that wheelbarrow was also affixed with the slogan, "Kenya of bust"...needless to say, there is outrage and calls for his resignation. Perhaps it isn't so remarkable that some of us continue to demonstrate how little we have evolved beyond our primitive and tribal nature. .

[Ten oz]

Here, yet again, we have an official in government exercising a measure of free speech to which he is not entitled. Mayor Charles Wasko of West York, PA (USA), posted to Facebook what he thought was a amusing picture of orangutans in a wheelbarrow with the caption, "Aw...moving day at the Whitehouse has finally arrived" (Associated Press). According to the AP article, that wheelbarrow was also affixed with the slogan, "Kenya of bust"...needless to say, there is outrage and calls for his resignation. Perhaps it isn't so remarkable that some of us continue to demonstrate how little we have evolved beyond our primitive and tribal nature. .

Gov't employees and officials are public servants. They work at the discretion of the people. A police Chief, Mayor, or etc will only lose their job if enough pressure is placed by the public. You keep referencing free speech but in all seriousness how many people working in the private or public sector could offend/verbally attack their organizations leadership or put an organizations interests at risk and expect to keep their job? The people (voters) are the boss of elected officials and elected officials appoint those who run all gov't organizations. So if a police Chief is bringing discredit onto a city and jeopardizing the electability of all the officials in that city that police Chief is gone. There is nothing unfair about it.

 

You referenced political correctness early in this thread. People often associate political correctness with college campuses. Facebook, Twiiter, and social media at large are cesspools of sexism, racism, and etc. The exact same people who attend politically correct colleges, boardrooms, or whatever also use social media. We are all being exposed to tsunami of demagoguery online. Did you watch the presidential debate? Is Trump too politically correct? If this country has true become too political coorect how could Trump be a major party nominee? How could police kill thousands of people in the street, how could we all see video of police beating unarmed women into the dirt for simply asking why they were stopped and just debate till we are blue in the face that people just need to do as they are told by the police?

[DrmDoc]

Gov't employees and officials are public servants. They work at the discretion of the people. A police Chief, Mayor, or etc will only lose their job if enough pressure is placed by the public. You keep referencing free speech but in all seriousness how many people working in the private or public sector could offend/verbally attack their organizations leadership or put an organizations interests at risk and expect to keep their job? The people (voters) are the boss of elected officials and elected officials appoint those who run all gov't organizations. So if a police Chief is bringing discredit onto a city and jeopardizing the electability of all the officials in that city that police Chief is gone. There is nothing unfair about it.

 

You referenced political correctness early in this thread. People often associate political correctness with college campuses. Facebook, Twiiter, and social media at large are cesspools of sexism, racism, and etc. The exact same people who attend politically correct colleges, boardrooms, or whatever also use social media. We are all being exposed to tsunami of demagoguery online. Did you watch the presidential debate? Is Trump too politically correct? If this country has true become too political coorect how could Trump be a major party nominee? How could police kill thousands of people in the street, how could we all see video of police beating unarmed women into the dirt for simply asking why they were stopped and just debate till we are blue in the face that people just need to do as they are told by the police?

 

I reviewed my comments for where I might have inferred that government employees have certain freedoms of speech or where I might have referenced "political correctness" issues. Although I didn't find any references I might have made to "political correctness", I did find comments essentially expressing a position similar to yours. Government employees and elected officials, with few exceptions, have a greater responsibility to the public than individuals not in government. These officials should be held to a higher standard and should not have the same freedoms of expression as the public. As to political correctness, I support civility regardless of form or expression.

[swansont]

Is Trump too politically correct? If this country has true become too political coorect how could Trump be a major party nominee?

 

 

I don't think he's been accused of being politically correct. Many of his followers use their disdain of political correctness to justify spewing hateful bigotry. It's a backlash from people who had been timid about doing so until they were emboldened by such behavior being given the apparent legitimacy of a national political campaign.

[Ten oz]

 

 

 

I agree, it's not in the best interests of a community's trust and confident to make publicly divisive statements. He, unlike civilians, doesn't have the liberty to express either a public or private opinions that could be construed as compromising his ability to do his job with integrity. However, there have been statements made in forums like this that suggest political correctness has gone too far by infringing on our right to free speech and labeling those who do speak as bigots and racists. I don't know whether Chief Dore's rant was truly racist but it was certainly uninformed, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I reviewed my comments for where I might have inferred that government employees have certain freedoms of speech or where I might have referenced "political correctness" issues. Although I didn't find any references I might have made to "political correctness", I did find comments essentially expressing a position similar to yours. Government employees and elected officials, with few exceptions, have a greater responsibility to the public than individuals not in government. These officials should be held to a higher standard and should not have the same freedoms of expression as the public. As to political correctness, I support civility regardless of form or expression.

 

 

I don't think he's been accused of being politically correct. Many of his followers use their disdain of political correctness to justify spewing hateful bigotry. It's a backlash from people who had been timid about doing so until they were emboldened by such behavior being given the apparent legitimacy of a national political campaign.

That was my point. The questions were redundant (my apologies). Trump as a major party candidate is a push back against political correctness that exists on a scale beyond any example of political correctness I can think of.

[swansont]

 

That was my point. The questions were redundant (my apologies). Trump as a major party candidate is a push back against political correctness that exists on a scale beyond any example of political correctness I can think of.

 

 

It's a pushback against a caricature of political correctness.

[Ten oz]

 

 

It's a pushback against a caricature of political correctness.

Yes, just as they idealize the Leave it to Beaver version of the United States that never existed.

[DrmDoc]

I posted the following to a BLM discussion and thought it might be relevant to this discussion as well:

 

Here's a link to a Review-Journal video report about a defense attorney ordered to remove a BLM pin from her lapel by a Las Vegas judge. The judge said the pin represented a political statement that was inappropriate for court, while the attorney believed the judge was infringing on her free speech. The attorney refused and her cases were delayed pending resolution of this issue. Although I do believe the attorney was making a political statement, I think the judge may have erred in what seems his assessment that wearing a small BLM pin might compromise the just and lawful proceedings of his court. However, in America, judges are well within their authority to remove protestors and protest displays from their courtrooms regardless of display size and who displays the protest.

 

So, do you think it was a political statement inappropriate for court or a violation of the attorney's free speech privilege?

[StringJunky]

I posted the following to a BLM discussion and thought it might be relevant to this discussion as well:

 

Here's a link to a Review-Journal video report about a defense attorney ordered to remove a BLM pin from her lapel by a Las Vegas judge. The judge said the pin represented a political statement that was inappropriate for court, while the attorney believed the judge was infringing on her free speech. The attorney refused and her cases were delayed pending resolution of this issue. Although I do believe the attorney was making a political statement, I think the judge may have erred in what seems his assessment that wearing a small BLM pin might compromise the just and lawful proceedings of his court. However, in America, judges are well within their authority to remove protestors and protest displays from their courtrooms regardless of display size and who displays the protest.

 

So, do you think it was a political statement inappropriate for court or a violation of the attorney's free speech privilege?

Regardless of the validity, morally of this particular movement, a court of law is not a place for its staff to make political statements or otherwise act in a manner that may distract the court from executing it's lawful duty, without prejudice and without airing obvious displays of affiliation to organisations that have no relevance to the court. It's all about ensuring impartiality as far as possible.

Edited October 7, 2016 by StringJunky

[DrmDoc]

Regardless of the validity, morally of this particular movement, a court of law is not a place for its staff to make political statements or otherwise act in a manner that may distract the court from executing it's lawful duty, without prejudice and without airing obvious displays of affiliation to organisations that have no relevance to the court. It's all about ensuring impartiality as far as possible.

 

It's difficult to disagree. Regrettably, there was a time in early America when larger displays of protests were routinely allowed--particularly in southern states. I've asked myself how I might react if an attorney's lapel pin bore some other symbol almost universally divisive and offensive, such as a swastika. If I were a judge in that case, I would have the pin and the person banished from my court because I would be unable to rule fairly for or against that individual in our proceedings. In the courtroom, I agree that no rights of free speech exist beyond that permitted by the court.

[StringJunky]

 

It's difficult to disagree. Regrettably, there was a time in early America when larger displays of protests were routinely allowed--particularly in southern states. I've asked myself how I might react if an attorney's lapel pin bore some other symbol almost universally divisive and offensive, such as a swastika. ourIf I were a judge in that case, I would have the pin and the person banished from my court because I would be unable to rule fairly for or against that individual in our proceedings. In the courtroom, I agree that no rights of free speech exist beyond that permitted by the court.

Yes, quite simply, a court is not a place for wearing your heart on your sleeve.

Edited October 7, 2016 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

There's also something imprecise and subjective about a lapel pin that seems out of place in a court of law. Whether it's a BLM pin or an American flag, by wearing it you're implying that you support only the "good things" about this faction, as defined by you alone.

[imatfaal]

But it takes a Supreme Court ruling to get a judge to remove the Ten Commandments from the wall of his court! And even then a judge refused and had to be chucked off the bench

[DrmDoc]

But it takes a Supreme Court ruling to get a judge to remove the Ten Commandments from the wall of his court! And even then a judge refused and had to be chucked off the bench

 

I here that an Alabama judge, under similar circumstance, was previously removed from a prior office, then re-elected, and now faces removal again because of his stance on gay marriage--only in American .

Edited October 11, 2016 by DrmDoc