Voynich Manuscript a Cipher for the Ages

[Tom O'Neil]

Tom, you have now been asked by several members to take us step by step through your method. You have avoided doing so, apparently in the belief that the steps of your method are self evident. They are not. I ask you please to produce a post that does exactly that.

 

If you choose not to do so, but instead post more of the same I shall request that this thread be locked permanently. Please avoid this by posting what you have been repeatedly asked for.

 

Thank you.

 

1) Find some evident theme or imagery which can produce a cipher.

a) I chose a table from Pythagorean numerology, because I never tried that before. Also I knew that John Dee practiced Pythagorean numerology.

b) I chose these glyph's to be identical to numbers in the Pythagorean table along with using the welsh language. The H=8 and so on e=5!

 

1) Scorpion shares the same glyph's as craf which is garlic so that was my starting point.

 

 

3) Then I went unto building up my voynich glyph table with words I found that correlated to the Zodiac and planets. This has never been done before.

a)This was extremely difficult and was done by trial and error.

4) Finally I needed to support my hypothesis with greater support. I sought out some logic, glyph s outside the voynich and a signature. I actually found Pi way into my near completion of the chart. 3.14159

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/227899731/Sloane-0863-John-Dee-s-Book-of-Enoch#download

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Tom O'Neil

[Strange]

1) Scorpion shares the same glyph's as craf which is garlic so that was my starting point.

 

You have a table at the top with numbers assigned to symbols.

 

1. Where does this table of symbols come from?

 

2. What determines the order of these symbols?

 

3. How do you know what numbers symbols should be assigned to these symbols?

 

4. How do you know that one set of signals means "scorpion"?

 

5. How do you know that another set of symbols means "craf" / "garlic" ?

 

6. Why are you using an English word (scorpion) in one case and a Welsh word (craf) in another case?

 

4) Finally I needed to support my hypothesis with greater support. I sought out some logic, glyph s outside the voynich and a signature.

 

As has been explained, because you are using numerology you can match a given number to any meaning you want. Which is why your method has zero value.

[Strange]

Disappointed that you are unwilling to explain your methodology.

 

I suspect that it is because you know that it is nonsense.

[Ophiolite]

Tom, thank you for making the effort to explain your method.I believe it was a sincere attempt. Strange's questions, however, demonstrate how it fails totally to constitute an explanation. Frankly I find it ludicrous and a little sad that you think it is a viable explanation. Perhaps you are too close to the problem. I don't know, but at present it remains nonsense.

[Tom O'Neil]

Tom, thank you for making the effort to explain your method.I believe it was a sincere attempt. Strange's questions, however, demonstrate how it fails totally to constitute an explanation. Frankly I find it ludicrous and a little sad that you think it is a viable explanation. Perhaps you are too close to the problem. I don't know, but at present it remains nonsense.

I don't see what your going on about. It's not nonsense. In fact, I have made greater sense of the voynich manuscript than in all ages. The fact that the script uses 3 evident numbers which I have equated to their equals and the Pi glyph which I represent as 3 does not not seem so mysterious that numerology would be in use here. You are drawing conclusions with no sound evidence that my method is incorrect.

 

For instance here is folio 77v and the imagery eludes to the dichotomy of woman's reproductive issues.

 

[Strange]

Please stop posting images until you have EXPLAINED what you are doing.

 

Please answer my questions.

 

Thank you.

[Ophiolite]

I don't see what your going on about. It's not nonsense. In fact, I have made greater sense of the voynich manuscript than in all ages. The fact that the script uses 3 evident numbers which I have equated to their equals and the Pi glyph which I represent as 3 does not not seem so mysterious that numerology would be in use here. You are drawing conclusions with no sound evidence that my method is incorrect.

Tom, please sit down, if you are not already sitting and ****ing pay attention. YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED YOUR METHOD.

 

No matter how much you may believe you have done so, you have not. Your method is obscure to us. Your attempts to explain it have obfuscated, not clarified. You need to step through the process step by step, defining every term along the way with maximum precision. If you are unable to do this there are two obvious explanations:

 

1. You lack the intellect to do so, in which case it is unlikely you have been able to do anything meaningful with the manuscript and you can be safely ignored.

2. You are deliberately trolling in which case you can be safely ignored.

 

Therefore, if you have any interest in promoting your hypothesis you need to explain it clearly and simply and you need to do so now. If you can't be bothered,then neither can I.

[Tom O'Neil]

Tom, please sit down, if you are not already sitting and ****ing pay attention. YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED YOUR METHOD.

 

No matter how much you may believe you have done so, you have not. Your method is obscure to us. Your attempts to explain it have obfuscated, not clarified. You need to step through the process step by step, defining every term along the way with maximum precision. If you are unable to do this there are two obvious explanations:

 

1. You lack the intellect to do so, in which case it is unlikely you have been able to do anything meaningful with the manuscript and you can be safely ignored.

2. You are deliberately trolling in which case you can be safely ignored.

 

Therefore, if you have any interest in promoting your hypothesis you need to explain it clearly and simply and you need to do so now. If you can't be bothered,then neither can I.

Ok this is not easy so I will try and make it easy for you all to comprehend ok. I thought those steps were clear I will deliver!

Edited October 20, 2016 by Tom O'Neil

[koti]

Ok this is not easy so I will try and make it easy for you all to comprehend ok. I thought those steps were clear I will deliver!

 

Tom, try to be coherent this time and focus on what Ophiolite is asking of you. If you post more of the nonsense that you posted so far, I assure you that a moderator will eventually lock this thread.

[Strange]

I don't see what your going on about. It's not nonsense.

 

It is very obviously nonsense. Because you are using numerology to reduce sets of symbols to a single digit.

 

This means, as already explained, that there are many thousands of words that could correspond to each digit. In fact, there are thousands of such words in every (written) language.

 

Therefore, one could take a list of random digits and "translate" it to many different words. These words could have completely different meanings and could even contradict each other. You could also "translate" that same string of digits to meaningless sequences of letters.

 

And you could do this in English, Welsh, Latin, Chinese, Aramaic or Double Dutch.

 

As a single string of digits can be equated to a word with any meaning in any language you can, of course, come up with any meaning you like for the words you identify in the manuscript.

 

There is therefore no rational basis for the words you have identified. You could have chosen any that vaguely match the pictures from the thousands of other words available in each of the thousands of written languages.

 

Therefore it is nonsense.

 

You would need an extraordinary level of evidence (i.e. not incomprehensible pictures) to counter this mathematical fact.

[Tom O'Neil]

 

Tom, try to be coherent this time and focus on what Ophiolite is asking of you. If you post more of the nonsense that you posted so far, I assure you that a moderator will eventually lock this thread.

Thank you I will post but its going to be an essay lol:)

[koti]

Thank you I will post but its going to be an essay lol:)

If you are going to dismiss what Ophiolite is asking of you and post an essay based on numerology nonsense, I assure you that your thread will eventually get locked.

While you write up your essay please keep in mind that numerology is nonsense.

Edited October 20, 2016 by koti

[Tom O'Neil]

 

If you are going to dismiss what Ophiolite is asking of you and post an essay based on numerology nonsense, I assure you your thread will eventually get locked.

While you write up you essay please keep in mind that numerology is nonsense.

It maybe nonsense to you yet in a cipher form it does lock up the manuscript unless you have images and themes to work with. Also many people had different beliefs in the 16 the century. Thanks again I will not load it up with numerology

Edited October 20, 2016 by Tom O'Neil

[koti]

It maybe nonsense to you

 

Please read the wiki on numerology.

Thanks again I will not load it up with numerology

 

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Edited October 20, 2016 by koti

[Tom O'Neil]

I'm going to have to write this in word. The forum locked up and my essay was lost. And I really want to explain, because its needed I agree.

Tom, please sit down, if you are not already sitting and ****ing pay attention. YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED YOUR METHOD.

 

No matter how much you may believe you have done so, you have not. Your method is obscure to us. Your attempts to explain it have obfuscated, not clarified. You need to step through the process step by step, defining every term along the way with maximum precision. If you are unable to do this there are two obvious explanations:

 

1. You lack the intellect to do so, in which case it is unlikely you have been able to do anything meaningful with the manuscript and you can be safely ignored.

2. You are deliberately trolling in which case you can be safely ignored.

 

Therefore, if you have any interest in promoting your hypothesis you need to explain it clearly and simply and you need to do so now. If you can't be bothered,then neither can I.

Methodology of a Number System Cipher to the VMS

 

First off, I believe that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher, but not in natural language form (meaning the glyph’s are not arranged as so). I truly believe there is text, a book or books that were used to produce the manuscript, but in the art of numbers. Yes if you interchange the glyph’s you can get the same result and therefore make the script seem as a major null as a natural language. So it would seem to violate frequency analysis to equate to an alphabet. The cipher in number form adds a natural defense at trying to decode the main body of the text; by the premise of a number system in which I believe John Dee would be so inclined to do. John Dee used a number system in which he associated divination to letters as numbers.

 

Yes I even attempted to decode several paragraphs from 16^th century Bibles. Although not in welsh which violates the main thrust of the language that I propose it is in Welsh! And it was not verse by verse so that was a failure.

 

However, if you attack the Voynich Manuscript from a theme and imagery perspective along with a sound cipher many words have come forth which represent its meaning. The cipher which I came up with is a number system which letters equal numbers. I approached this decoding method in the Voynich Manuscript from the most intricate approach attributed to the Zodiac in folio 67r2. Furthermore this became the base of operations for my cipher in which I added upon. This should answer the (Strange) question. However Mr. Strange you have to line up the Zodiac on top of creating cipher for that to work. If you can present one using a number system in a different language; I would like to see it and I will allow 1 Zodiac sign to be a different language to be fair. Every attempt in history here has been met with failure; but I noticed a glyph equivalents to the (scorpion) and, (craf, i.e. garlic) equaled a 1 in along with the code I embraced for this image of craf in f99r; as the Voynich Glyph’s which I associated to have number equivalents added up to a 1.

 

 

oHae89

 

o=6, H=8, a=1, e=5, 8=8, 9=9 } All add up and equal a 1

 

This cipher I have found which I’m certain is used within the Voynich Manuscript has confounded the language to numbers. It does not follow order of a natural language which has kept it secrets for so long. The words which I have found are in Welsh would be 85 out of a hundred. And they correlate to the imagery and themes. The reason I have 15 words outside of welsh is attributed to known astronomy words in which John Dee would have known. John Dee also annotated a Welsh to English Dictionary (1)! I discount the, “Boke of Jona”, because it was just an attempt in which it produced failure from not following verse by verse and its outside of the Welsh Language. So in a sense I’m just using Welsh with astronomical and astrological slight imbalances to the overall language. That is fair! I’m certainly not using every European Language.

 

1) The facts are the images and themes tell a story on their own.

2) The Voynich word has to add up and equal the Welsh equivalent word

3) Translate that in which the cipher meets the images head on.

4) And the theme words correlate to the whole picture; I would say no this is not just a coincidence from 1-9.

 

 

 

It’s a number system; whether or not Pythagoras came up with it, I used it for my cipher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHV1sTPfMpI

 

http://www.rkm.com.au/CALCULATORS/CALCULATOR-Numerology.html

 

 

(1) William Salesbury his Dictionarie in Englishe & Welshe, or Brytishe. 4o London 1547 :

Dee’s copy is now TCD, EE.e.32 (formerly C.10.17). At the head of the titlepage is ‘John Dee’. In the first half of the book, up to sig. K, he extensively annotated and corrected it; in some instances where Salesbury had put words of English origin in the ‘Camraec’ column, Dee supplied a Welsh word and occasionally, where Salesbury left a blank, he supplied an English equivalent. He also corrected equivalents in both languages. Later owned by abp. Ussher. See R. G. Gruffydd and R. J. Roberts, ‘John Dee’s additions to William Salesbury’s Dictionary’, Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, n.s. 7 (2001), 19–43.

http://www.bibsoc.org.uk/sites/www.bibsoc.org.uk/files/John%20Dee's%20Library%20Catalogue%204.pdf

 

https://voynichnumerology.wordpress.com/

John Dee Voynich Numerology.pdf

[Strange]

Sigh.

 

You have totally failed in your task of explaining anything.

 

As a reminder, here are my first three questions again.

 

You have a table with numbers assigned to "Voynich symbols".

 

1. Where does this table of symbols come from?

 

2. What determines the order of these symbols?

 

3. How do you know what numbers symbols should be assigned to these symbols?

 

You have not answered any of these. Please do so.

 

In your PDF you show a group of six symbols which you identify as follows:

o=6, H=8, a=1, e=5, 8=8, 9=9

 

This just raises more questions.

 

7. Why do you say that the second symbol is an H with value 8 but the (nearly identical) symbol in the 3rd column, 1st row of your table has the value 3?

 

8. Why does the symbol in the 3rd column, 1st row of your table has the value 3?

 

9. Why do you equate the fourth symbol in this group with 'e' when it looks nothing like it? (For example, do you have examples of writing from the period where an 'e' is written like that?)

 

10. Why do you have a 'J' in the table of English letters when that letter did not exist at the time. (Someone else has already mentioned the fact you are not using the Welsh alphabet; you are not even using the correct English one.)

 

11. You make some vague references to the zodiac. What part does that play in your method?

 

The other questions I asked were:

 

4. How do you know that one set of signals means "scorpion"?

 

5. How do you know that another set of symbols means "craf" / "garlic" ?

 

6. Why are you using an English word (scorpion) in one case and a Welsh word (craf) in another case?

 

You have not answered 1 out of this short list of 11 simple questions. Not one! Why is that?

 

 

Thanks again I will not load it up with numerology

 

You lied.

 

The only thing you have explained (again) is that you use numerology.

OK. Let's make it a round dozen questions (because 12 is a magic number and 1+2=3):

 

You use the word "scorpion" (rather than the Welsh word) and you also mention the zodiac. So we can assume you are referring to the sign of the zodiac. John Dee would not have called this sign "scorpion":

"The latter part of the sign Scorpio ascendeth ..."

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/john-dee.html

 

12. Why are you using the English word ("scorpion") instead of the word used by Dee ("scorpio")?

 

(It would be really funny if removing the erroneous J made scorpio come to the same numerological total as scorpion. It doesn't. I can't believe I checked that.)

[koti]

Thanks again I will not load it up with numerology

As opposed to Strange I don't think that you are lying Tom and I have just one question instead of 12.

I suspect that since your #65 post fails to fulfill your above statement which is your post #63 and you loaded us with numerology BS once again, you have to realise youreself that there is something wrong with your perception of what is going on around you. My question is:

What do you think it might be ?

Edited October 20, 2016 by koti

[Tom O'Neil]

Another find which supports my method for a number system associated with the VMS. In folio 4r of MS-408 there is a letter, "F" on a pod of a flower.

https://www.jasondavies.com/voynich/#f4r/0.5/0.5/2.50

 

Welsh Dictionary:

http://welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html

 

I decided to see if the first two words in f4r, has any meaning associated with the letter, "F". It turns out they do! The image looks like flax and voynich gardens concurs.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax

http://www.voynichgardens.com/

 

Now take a look at this.

 

https://voynichnumerology.wordpress.com/

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tom O'Neil

[koti]

Really Tom?! Are you ever going to stop this farce or are you just going to keep on humiliating youreself ?

Edited October 26, 2016 by koti

[Strange]

Another find which supports my method for a number system associated with the VMS.

 

Hey, here's a crazy idea. Why not EXPLAIN your method so we can assess it and even try it ourselves!

13. Why are you using the English word for flax but the Welsh word for pod?

 

Answer: because it is bat-shit crazy numerology. Prove me wrong !!!1!! (As you crackpots like to say.)

[Tom O'Neil]

"bul", is the Welsh word for, "flax"!

 

Strange your comprehension needs work.

 

http://welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html

[Sensei]

"bul", is the Welsh word for, "flax"!

 

Strange your comprehension needs work.

 

http://welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html

On wikipedia page of Voynich manuscript,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

there is no single word about Wales/Welsh language.

So, where did you get idea that modern Welsh, should be used in, presumably, "middle ages", manuscript?

Shouldn't you learn original Middle Ages Welsh, and use it instead of current one.. ?

(similarly like current English language and old-English)

Or you think Welsh language didn't evolve any single bit in the latest 600 years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Welsh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Welsh

Edited October 27, 2016 by Sensei

[Tom O'Neil]

When you find a word using this number system 91% of Welsh words are stripped out automatically. Then the image is compared to the Voynich word and it has a chance of 9% for the remaining Welsh dictionary. But the percentages are less than that, because the word is targeting an image and both the welsh word and the voynich word have to be equal. So in essence its narrowed down to 3% for a chance of a fit. Now in these posts you will find a Zodiac which all but one word is in Welsh and I don't know what the percentages of finding that fit is! So here it is again. However I will try .03x.12=.36% so I had a .36% chance of fitting a Zodiac in.

 

The people who are arguing against my method are not taking this into consideration. If all languages don't work based on rules to decoded the voynich than the argument for a number system is high for my method.

 

On wikipedia page of Voynich manuscript,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript
there is no single word about Wales/Welsh language.
So, where did you get idea that modern Welsh, should be used in, presumably, "middle ages", manuscript?
Shouldn't you learn original Middle Ages Welsh, and use it instead of current one.. ?
(similarly like current English language and old-English)

Or you think Welsh language didn't evolve any single bit in the latest 600 years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Welsh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Welsh

Dates are arbitrary with a language so here is one for bul. We are not certain it was in use a 100 years prior.

1620 (18g.) Mos 204 29, Cyn amled ar bul, ar y llin.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Tom O'Neil

[John Cuthber]

So, you are sticking with the numerology bullshit, rather than explaining your method.

Is that because you know it won't stand up to scrutiny?

[Strange]

"bul", is the Welsh word for, "flax"!

 

Strange your comprehension needs work.

 

 

The word llin is also welsh for flax.

 

I don't think it is my comprehension that is the problem but you refusal / inability to explain what you are doing (beyond numerology which is, as explained already, inherently meaningless.

When you find a word using this number system 91% of Welsh words are stripped out automatically.

 

 

Q14. Why or how are they stripped out?

 

(Reminder: you have not yet answered a single question. Not one. )

 

 

 

Now in these posts you will find a Zodiac which all but one word is in Welsh

 

 

Q.15 Please demonstrate that this is the case. List the words and show how you derive them (that will require you to answer the first 10 or so questions as well.)

If all languages don't work based on rules to decoded the voynich than the argument for a number system is high for my method.

 

Q16 Please show that you cannot do the same with all other languages. (I would do this but you haven't explained your method yet.)

Edited October 27, 2016 by Strange