living forever

[Delta1212]

You didn't ask if people wanted to live longer than currently possible by a few decades or even a couple of centuries. You asked why people who are ok with dying eventually don't just kill themselves right now.

[ecoli]

You didn't ask if people wanted to live longer than currently possible by a few decades or even a couple of centuries. You asked why people who are ok with dying eventually don't just kill themselves right now.

 

The implication being that people generally have a preference for life over death over any time scale.

[Delta1212]

 

The implication being that people generally have a preference for life over death over any time scale.

[Sensei]

To people in this thread who claim they do not want to live forever... what is stopping you from killing yourself right now?

 

What you said in this post in majority of western countries is crime.. It's under "persuasion or assistance in suicide"..

People were prosecuted and going to court while saying similar things as you on Twitter, Facebook, Google+ on somebody else profile, when they did it for real, and killed them self..

 

https://www.google.com/?q=coaxing+to+suicide

Edited January 5, 2017 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

 

What you said in this post in majority of western countries is crime.. It's under "persuasion or assistance in suicide"..

People were prosecuted and going to court while saying similar things as you on Twitter, Facebook, Google+ on somebody else profile, when they did it for real, and killed them self..

 

https://www.google.com/?q=coaxing+to+suicide

 

Let's pull back on the stick a bit. Asking "What is stopping you?" is not the same as saying "You should do it!"

[Sensei]

 

Let's pull back on the stick a bit. Asking "What is stopping you?" is not the same as saying "You should do it!"

 

For somebody who is in depression and saying so on Internet forum/profile, and receiving comments like above, there is no difference..

[iNow]

The implication being that people generally have a preference for life over death over any time scale.

I don't read it this way at all. One can simultaneously have a desire to live longer than they already have as of today without in parallel wishing to live indefinitely.

[ecoli]

I don't read it this way at all. One can simultaneously have a desire to live longer than they already have as of today without in parallel wishing to live indefinitely.

 

I agree in principle, yet people are still reluctant to put an upper bound on how long they think is really enough life and then commit to calling it quits after that time (given a hypothetical scenario where you can live without degrading the quality of life/health). This suggests to me an innate preference for indefinitely prolonging life.

...

 

Of course this is an argument based on extrapolation, I'm not pretending otherwise.

[iNow]

I tie it to a desire to experience certain events more than a desire to survive some arbitrary number of days.

 

By example, I don't crave another 100 or 200 or even 300 years, but do desire seeing my kids graduate, fall in love, do interesting things with their lives, meet my grandchildren, watch humanity break its addiction to fossil fuels, eradicate cancer and Alzheimer's, move beyond a scarcity based economy, expand farther into the cosmos, and similar things.

 

I want to experience those things far more than I want to count more cycles around our sun, infinite or otherwise.

[ecoli]

I tie it to a desire to experience certain events more than a desire to survive some arbitrary number of days.

 

By example, I don't crave another 100 or 200 or even 300 years, but do desire seeing my kids graduate, fall in love, do interesting things with their lives, meet my grandchildren, watch humanity break its addiction to fossil fuels, eradicate cancer and Alzheimer's, move beyond a scarcity based economy, expand farther into the cosmos, and similar things.

 

I want to experience those things far more than I want to count more cycles around our sun, infinite or otherwise.

Oh yeah I agree with that completely, but I'm also assuming humans are going to cook up some really cool things in a post-scarcity society. From a pure utilitarian standpoint, I would love to survive long enough to experience wireheading. Being dead, on the other hand, gets me nothing.

 

For somebody who is in depression and saying so on Internet forum/profile, and receiving comments like above, there is no difference..

 

I would never encourage someone to commit suicide...and since I'm the one advocating for everyone's immortal here, interpreting my comment that way is, I believe, disingenuous.

 

I have lost several friends to suicide, which has contributed to my beliefs that people should strive for immortality. And, no, talking about immortality with my one friend who was interested in this possibility did not drive him to it.

[iNow]

Simplified: I have zero desire (perhaps even negative desire) to live forever, but it sure would be nice to be able to choose for myself when my last chapter's been written.

[Itoero]

When someone becomes religious when he's dying, is that because he's afraid of dying and wants to live forever?

[EdEarl]

I don't fear death; rather, I fear dieing will be painful. And, I'd push off dieing till another day. Perhaps, I'll become wracked with pain and decide it is better to be dead, but that time hasn't come yet, and I suffered a lot of pain for about 8 years. Now, I'm almost pain free without taking anything but an 81 mg aspirin and fish oil for inflammation.

 

Maybe, if I lived long enough, boredom would drive me to wish for death, IDK.

[dimreepr]

Things you can't control cause fear...like a bear or several bears.

 

No doubt you meet bears on a daily basis, of course you will fear an immediate danger and we should take steps to protect ourselves, but how often are you actually in physical danger?

 

The point is when we fear an abstract (like all these foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs) all we do is torment ourselves with worry and hate; every time we try to protect ourselves from such a fear, we all suffer.

[Itoero]

No doubt you meet bears on a daily basis, of course you will fear an immediate danger and we should take steps to protect ourselves, but how often are you actually in physical danger?

 

The point is when we fear an abstract (like all these foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs) all we do is torment ourselves with worry and hate; every time we try to protect ourselves from such a fear, we all suffer.

That's true. You have basically two kinds of fear.

*You can fear an abstract like you pointed out.

*You can fear reality...this causes you to be careful when you handle a sharp knife or when you use a saw.

[ecoli]

When someone becomes religious when he's dying, is that because he's afraid of dying and wants to live forever?

 

If that is a belief that your immortal soul will persist forever in heaven...? Yes, I'd call that living forever.

[MonDie]

From a utilitarian standpoint, of which I'm an adherent, more living is generally better given that living is the only way happiness is possible. An adherent of rational egoism, however, would want themself to live longer. From a utilitarian standpoint it shouldn't matter whether I personally live longer as long as life continues. I only behave selfishly at times because it is instinctual, but rationally I acknowledge that my future self is really another person from my present self that deserves no special prioritization.

[Sensei]

By example, I don't crave another 100 or 200 or even 300 years, but do desire seeing (...) watch humanity break its addiction to fossil fuels, (....)

I want to experience those things far more than I want to count more cycles around our sun, infinite or otherwise.

 

This one you can do by your self.

Just get to garage and spend the all remaining days of your life to find a ridiculous cheap way to produce energy and engine utilizing it.. And give it away for free to everybody.

And the whole petroleum, gas & coal industry will bankrupt, unable to compete with your invention.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Sensei

[ecoli]

From a utilitarian standpoint, of which I'm an adherent, more living is generally better given that living is the only way happiness is possible. An adherent of rational egoism, however, would want themself to live longer. From a utilitarian standpoint it shouldn't matter whether I personally live longer as long as life continues. I only behave selfishly at times because it is instinctual, but rationally I acknowledge that my future self is really another person from my present self that deserves no special prioritization.

 

Hello, a fellow rationalist! I admit my utility function might be more egotistical than yours. And yes, we should clarify that life extension through, say the cannibalization of a million people to gain a million years of life is unethical and not permissable, but I see no reason why a life maximizer would turn down, say, cheap immortality for yourself in a post-scarcity economy.

[iNow]

Just get to garage and spend the all remaining days of your life to find a ridiculous cheap way to produce energy and engine utilizing it.. And give it away for free to everybody.

And the whole petroleum, gas & coal industry will bankrupt, unable to compete with your invention.

Was this an attempt at snark? If so, you failed. Encourage you to catch up on what's actually occurring. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/world-energy-hits-a-turning-point-solar-that-s-cheaper-than-wind

.

 

[MonDie]

 

Hello, a fellow rationalist! I admit my utility function might be more egotistical than yours. And yes, we should clarify that life extension through, say the cannibalization of a million people to gain a million years of life is unethical and not permissable, but I see no reason why a life maximizer would turn down, say, cheap immortality for yourself in a post-scarcity economy.

 

Quite so, we have to consider the cost to others before taking the deal for our own gain. How will it effect everything else?

However, as Delta pointed out, eternal life doesn't mean eternal youth. There's really a deeper problem here. The question should not be "Should I exist tomorrow?" Everyday we change by forgetting, remembering, bruising, healing, adapting, and aging. What we actually want is to remember but not forget, to heal but not bruise, to adapt but not age, but nobody is continually existing tomorrow as they exist today and such a situation might not be desireable if it entails anterograde amnesia. The better question is "What should I become tomorrow?" or more broadly "What should exist tomorrow?"

I think living eternally implies a body that (re)constructs itself more quickly than it is destroyed or deteriorated. This probably implies exceptional health, which is desireable in its own right.

[Sensei]

Was this an attempt at snark? If so, you failed.

Absolutely NO. Rather encouragement to do something useful for human kind.

Personally, I am fan of solar panels.

There is plentiful of place to place them: the all walls of the all buildings, the all roads, the all highways..

If road is absorbing energy from the Sun, it can create little electromagnets, that can keep vehicles with magnets/electromagnets above the road levitating, and decreasing energy needed to keep them flying without friction..

(and transfer the remaining energy to vehicles wirelessly, so they don't need fuel)

Edited January 6, 2017 by Sensei