A very uncomplicated generator

[Opendreamer78]

I would like to present an invention I have been working on. It is an electric generator that powers itself. The model is quite simple in theory. There are three main components, a pump, an alternator/water wheel hybrid, and 3 deep cycle batteries. The idea comes from integrating a variation of Pelton's water wheel with an axial flux alternator, like the ones used in wind turbines(Hugh Piggots model for example), so basically a wind turbine that has little "cups" instead of blades. The pump is to produce enough force to spin the water wheel-alternator hybrid which would generate the electricity needed to operate the pump as well as enough to trickle charge a battery. The water/antifreeze/gas? that the pump uses would be recollected in a chamber to be used by the pump again and again, like a fountain pump.

This is not an attempt at perpetual motion , since each component has a lifespan, and the whole unit requires manual care to keep it functional and practical.

The main premise is that instead of using a Pelton's wheel to spin the alternator, the Pelton's wheel IS the alternator. The axial flux design would be best suited since it generates power because of the high revolutions:lower magnetic resistance, as opposed to the older low revolutions:higher torque. Should this theory prove to be possible, it may be safe to assume that the size and output of the alternator, as well as the type of pump and jet nozzle could be both calibrated to perform in almost any type of scenario (i.e., subzero temperatures, within a vaccuum?)

Here's my own, uninformed and very amateurish equation to try to describe it:

The pump uses x amount of watts to operate. The alternator, spun by the jet-pump, produces x amount of voltage. The voltage takes x amount of time to charge a x type of battery. X is dependant on choice?

Now here is the "fork in the road". Could the alternator power a pump via DC as well as charge the x type battery?

Or, would the pump have to operate off of it's own battery, therefore requiring the pump to run long enough, off one battery's charge to charge 2 x type batteries? So one would need a total of 3 batteries. 1 to operate the pump, 1 to replace it (charging), and 1 for practical use(charged).

If the alternator did produce enough power to run the pump and trickle charge, then that would change things I'm sure.

This setup does require gravity to ensure that the pump does not run dry, but in space, it may be possible to use mercury instead of water/antifreeze/gas(?) with a magnet located close enough to the pump's intake to collect the mercury as long as the magnet isn't too strong as to impede the flow through the pump. That's a whole other thread since I haven't done much research into that aspect.

I lost most of my schematics and materials in a fire so I'm redoing the "math" I need in order to build a model that can achieve optimal results... If it's feasible! So I'm looking for opinions as to what I'm not seeing here. I'm pretty sure the idea is within the parameters of physics, there's no "water flowing uphill" here(Robert Boyle). If anything, I tried to adhere to the concept of the golden mean, if you know what I mean. All I'm trying to do is reuse past techniques with current innovations.

This is an abstract but I hope it was sufficient enough to at least give you an accurate idea as to what I'm talking about.

 

Questions? Comments? Opinions?

Edited September 24, 2016 by Opendreamer78

[Klaynos]

The pump will use more energy than the water wheel generates. Friction will be the killer.

[John Cuthber]

The pump will use more energy than the water wheel generates. Friction will be the killer.

I think it's a toss up whether friction or viscosity will kill it.

Something will.

I would like to present an invention I have been working on. It is an electric generator that powers itself....

 

Questions? Comments? Opinions?

I don't expect you to understand this (I certainly don't) but it is a proof that your idea will not work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

 

It's a mathematical proof- there's no way to argue against it.

So it is certain that you are wasting your time.

[Opendreamer78]

So a direct feed wouldn't be effective. In that case, an already charged battery would be needed in order to power the pump, to prime the system. To me, if a fully charged battery can power a pump long enough for the alternator to charge 2 batteries, then you have a positive net result, no? As long as the pump uses less watts than the alternator generates. The kwh of pumps vary greatly, as does the size and output of alternators. Is there really no possibilty of a happy medium?

[Klaynos]

A fully charged battery would run it long enough to not quite charge one battery. Or not quite half charge 2.

[Opendreamer78]

Okay, thank you! Hey, I wanted to know right?

[Opendreamer78]

I guess i should delete this? How?

[Opendreamer78]

A fully charged battery would run it long enough to not quite charge one battery. Or not quite half charge 2.

Any more than one battery would be a positive net result. Now im more confused than ever. I was hoping for mathmatical proof that I could understand. I like to write, and since there are so many amateurs who are on the same line of thought as I am, I'd like to write and share the conclusive evidence as to why this wouldn't work. Simply saying "no you can't" is unacceptable. I took the time to write the idea out as best I could, I'm only asking for the same from a response.

[swansont]

Any more than one battery would be a positive net result. Now im more confused than ever. I was hoping for mathmatical proof that I could understand. I like to write, and since there are so many amateurs who are on the same line of thought as I am, I'd like to write and share the conclusive evidence as to why this wouldn't work. Simply saying "no you can't" is unacceptable. I took the time to write the idea out as best I could, I'm only asking for the same from a response.

 

 

Energy is conserved — you can't create extra energy. So your system can't charge 2 batteries if it started with 1.

 

Entropy will increase. IOW, there will be losses in your system. The total amount available to you will decrease over time as these losses accumulate.

 

The evidence is contained in the branch of physics known as thermodynamics.

[Opendreamer78]

Perfect! And in laymans terms! Thank you.