Models for making sense of relativity - physical space vs physical spacetime

[Sriman Dutta]

Hi mordred, you say that particles are the result of field interactions. If that's so how does the proton or larger baryons exist? Does the proton as a whole exists because of interactions among two up and one down quarks? Or, is the scenario much more complicated?

[Mordred]

Particles can and do have multiple interactions. Indeed those interactions define the particles.

 

Quarks interact with all 4 force fields. Electromagnetic, strong, weak, gravity as well as the Higg's

 

Within a proton the strongest field interaction (dominant field) is the strong force whose mediator is the gluon. This is the majority of the mass term of the proton. The Higg's field interaction however accounts for 1% of the mass.

 

This is just a simple example but all properties of any particle involve field interactions in some manner. Whether its an individual field or a combination of fields.

 

Take a Neutrino for example, it doesn't interact with the strong or electromagnetic field. So it can literally pass through a 1000 light years of lead without any change in path.

 

It does interact with the Higgs field which is the only interaction the neutrino gains mass from.

 

charge,color,flavor etc are also properties involving field interactions in point of detail define these quantum properties.

Little hint how far a field interacts with a particle depends on its gauge bosons mean free path and lifetime which correlates to the fields coupling constant.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Mordred

[Eise]

This is just a simple example but all properties of any particle involve field interactions in some manner.

 

So this means a particle is completely defined by its interactions?

[Mordred]

yes

[studiot]

 

So this means a particle is completely defined by its interactions?

 

yes

 

 

I think this is a bit like a fisherman defining fish by the size of net to catch them or a materials engineer defining aggregate particles by the size of sieve that retains them.

 

[Mordred]

lol in a way. Think of it this way we cannot detect particles without some form of interaction. Yet this is also true for any size object.

 

Unfortunately elementary particles have no discernable volume (pointlike) so in this regard the fishnet won't help

 

Spin, charge, mass, parity, hypercharge, parity, isospin, color, flavor, cross section are all interaction properties. Even the particles decay rate depends on these interactions when coupled with the numerous conservation laws.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Mordred

[Sriman Dutta]

Thanks mordred for clarification.

[studiot]

My point is that specifying the interactions alone will not fully pin down the intrinsic nature of the some particles.

 

Properties can vary with shape for the same material.

 

https://mrsec.uchicago.edu/research/highlights/particle-shape-effects

 

My example was the simplest since it refers to the interaction of a particle with a hole (nothing).

 

Long thin particles can still 'wiggle through' even though one dimension is much larger than the hole and much larger than smaller rounded particles that can't pass the mesh (ie are retained.)

[Mordred]

I can't see your link as it flags a hazard on my phone but every property I mentioned are intrinsic properties. Yet we cannot detect any of those properties without interactions to pin them down in the first place. All internal quantum numbers are intrinsic and describe the particles interactions.

 

Got the link you have working had to switch to comp.

 

Not sure how that link applies to elementary and fundamental particles which has no discernable volume. So how can shape apply?

 

Are you perhaps considering orbital shapes within a atom ?

 

Ie S orbital is spherical, P orbital is dumbell while the d and f orbital have more complicated shapes due to their quantum numbers. ?

 

The number of shells is determined by the principle quantum number, The number of subshells within each shell is given by the azimuthal quantum number. The magnetic quantum number and the principle quantum number gives the orbitals within each subshell.

 

Ie S subshell has 1 orbital as M=0, while p has 3 orbitals as m =-1,0,1. d has 5 as m=-2,-1,0,+1,+2. while f has 7 -3,-2,-1,0,+1,+2,+3.

 

Though these apply to atomic particles.

 

Unfortunately the internal structure of a proton is far more complex. Considering the proton cross sections through deep inelastic scatterings can show far more than just 3 quarks. What many people don't know is that the 2 up and 1 down quark is the excess. Not the exact number of quarks. Unfortunately wiki doesn't detail this but its explained here.

 

https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/largehadroncolliderfaq/whats-a-proton-anyway/proton-collisions-vs-quarkgluonantiquark-mini-collisions/

Edited December 30, 2016 by Mordred

[studiot]

Sorry about the link it is the University of Chicago.

 

I wasn't directing my thoughts particularly at sub atomic particles, or parts of them.

 

Shape is important in the properties and therefore the interactions of some molecules eg cis and trans isomers.

 

Orbitals can be 'bent' by lone pairs - the most famous example being the bond angle in water

 

Molecular sieves can be blocked up by long thin molecules, that could pass through length ways, but not width ways, just as effectively as sticks crossways can block culvert grids, although they are thin enough to pass through end on.