Alex_Krycek Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) In society today suicide is generally seen as abnormal human behavior, and is considered the result of a "mental illness". But it seems that a large percentage of human beings experience depression and suicidal ideation at some point in their lives, and many have persistent trouble with these thoughts. In many instances it is taboo, and people who have these thoughts keep them to themselves. In ages past, suicide was not entirely frowned upon, especially as a result of some dishonor in war (the Japanese Samurai considered suicide as a respectable form of self sacrifice if they were dishonored). Some countries such as Switzerland allow people with terminal illnesses who are in pain to come and end their lives in a controlled manner. Recently there was a case in Europe where a country was considering letting a 'terminally depressed' young woman kill herself on ethical grounds. My Uncle committed suicide when I was a kid. The plant that he worked at closed down, and as a result of losing his job he drove his car into an empty parking lot and shot himself. Recently I discovered that a friend that I had worked with this summer attempted suicide. It seems that this psychological phenomena is all around us, and is a part of who we are as human beings. There are even accounts of animals committing suicide in captivity. So it is logical to ask, why do we think like this, why do a great many of us want to die at some point, and is it normal behavior at the end of the day, despite what all the drug companies and psychologists tell us? It seems we as human beings are always on the edge, despite what we would like to believe. Thoughts? Edited October 7, 2016 by Alex_Krycek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Being able to choose how and when to die should (in theory) be better than randomly dying from accident or illness. I think the main issue with suicide is when it's a response to an external situation which may only be temporary, and that taking such an irreversible course of action may be premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) Being able to choose how and when to die should (in theory) be better than randomly dying from accident or illness. I think the main issue with suicide is when it's a response to an external situation which may only be temporary, and that taking such an irreversible course of action may be premature. My question is really about the prevalence of suicidal thoughts in human beings and whether or not they are in fact a normal part of being human. Currently, these thoughts are deemed abnormal by the mainstream, and people with them are ostracized. But if these thoughts are really so abnormal, how come so many people have them, or actually commit suicide, or go from being strong and healthy to suicidal so suddenly? Edited October 8, 2016 by Alex_Krycek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Currently, these thoughts are deemed abnormal by the mainstream, and people with them are ostracized. Really? In my experience, they are offered help. Maybe it is different where you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Suicide is an evolutionary trait. One man's death is another man's bread. "Carpenter ants and some species of termite will rupture glands in a process called autothysis. Termites will use autothysis to defend their colony, as the ruptured gland produces a sticky secretion that leads to a tar baby effect in defense. When threatened by a ladybug, the pea aphid will explode itself, protecting other aphids and sometimes killing the ladybug" When there is a predator, male boars will run away from wife and kids...possibly leading to their own death but securing the safety of the rest of the family. This also explains why male boars are a lot bigger then females. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Suicide is an evolutionary trait. One man's death is another man's bread How is a suicide death of a deeply troubled and/or seriously depressed/ill person bread for another man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memammal Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 As far as I know it is a genetic predisposition; pretty much the same predisposition that yields depression. If you are born with it, you will be vulnerable. Environmental factors (i.e. when things do not go according to plan) trigger it. The same goes for alcoholism and a range of so-called "personality disorders", even homosexuality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 As far as I know it is a genetic predisposition; pretty much the same predisposition that yields depression. If you are born with it, you will be vulnerable. Environmental factors (i.e. when things do not go according to plan) trigger it. The same goes for alcoholism and a range of so-called "personality disorders", even homosexuality I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrKrettin Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 As far as I know it is a genetic predisposition; pretty much the same predisposition that yields depression. If you are born with it, you will be vulnerable. Is nobody going to say that cultural expectations are also significant? Clearly there are those who are predisposed due to depression, but there are other factors which affect those who are of sound mind. The Catholic church has blackmailed people into not taking their own lives, but would rather have them die a long slow agonising death than have them commit the sin of suicide. This objection rests largely on the concept that God has given man an allotted span of life to fulfil. Other cultures (e.g. Greek and Roman) had a less religious attitude and generally objected only on the grounds of inconvenience to others (e.g. dependent relatives) and was an act of social irresponsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 How is a suicide death of a deeply troubled and/or seriously depressed/ill person bread for another man?It's not but the evolutionary trait causes the genetic predisposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) the evolutionary trait causes the genetic predisposition. ...and genetic predispositiion may cause a dissorder in humans which may lead to a higher risk of suicide - this is obvious. It's not synonymous to "suicide is an evolutionary trait" though. Edited October 21, 2016 by koti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sriman Dutta Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 In India, a large portion of the rural women commit suicide due to the burden of their in-laws. Torture and mental torment causes the women to think to die and end the life. There are even cases where people commit suicide in order to get relief out of mental depression or some fatal unsocial activities. People consider suicide illegal and unethical. But, I put forward a question - Every human has got the right to life. So why they shan't be given the right to die ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 ...and genetic predispositiion may cause a dissorder in humans which may lead to a higher risk of suicide - this is obvious. It's not synonymous to "suicide is an evolutionary trait" though. Yes,suicide is not an evolutionary trait, it's caused by a trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Yes,suicide is not an evolutionary trait, it's caused by a trait. I'm glad we cleared that up and now we agree on this. Your initial statement implied horrible lack of empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memammal Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just getting back to posts #3 & #9. It appears that they may in fact be addressing each other to some extent..? Suicide is being frowned upon because of cultural (incl. religious) norms and because unaffected humans find it extremely difficult to understand how any person can take his/her own life. The OP seems to want to delve into the question as to whether it should be seen as "abnormal" behavior and whether affected people should get treated in order to prevent suicide (severe depression is treatable and will become even more treatable in the future)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriously disabled Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I tried to hurt myself once and maybe in the future I will try again. I am suffering from depression and that's because I am too lonely and can't receive any kind of reciprocal affection from beautiful girls. I also have low self-esteem and that's because some people tell me that I look ugly. Being constantly reminded that I am ugly is partially (in addition to other problems) what has triggered my depression and now all that I can think about is just a peaceful way to die and disappear from this cruel world forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memammal Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I.m.o. nobody really wants to feel depressed...to the point of taking his/her own life. I am sure that affected people actually want to feel better about themselves and their lives. Seeing that it is something that can be managed by means of treatment, should that not be the starting point..? Future generations will probably have the luxury of undergoing genetic screening tests at an early age that will allow high-risk individuals (depressed/anxious, psychopathic, Alzheimer, etc.) to be treated in time. Edited October 23, 2016 by Memammal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Future generations will probably have the luxury of undergoing genetic screening tests at an early age that will allow high-risk individuals (depressed/anxious, psychopathic, Alzheimer, etc.) to be treated in time.This might happen in the not too distant future. They can already edit DNA with CRISPR/Cas9 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I tried to hurt myself once and maybe in the future I will try again. I am suffering from depression and that's because I am too lonely and can't receive any kind of reciprocal affection from beautiful girls. I also have low self-esteem and that's because some people tell me that I look ugly. Being constantly reminded that I am ugly is partially (in addition to other problems) what has triggered my depression and now all that I can think about is just a peaceful way to die and disappear from this cruel world forever. Is this a joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I tried to hurt myself once and maybe in the future I will try again. I am suffering from depression and that's because I am too lonely and can't receive any kind of reciprocal affection from beautiful girls. I also have low self-esteem and that's because some people tell me that I look ugly. Being constantly reminded that I am ugly is partially (in addition to other problems) what has triggered my depression and now all that I can think about is just a peaceful way to die and disappear from this cruel world forever. Is this a joke? That doesn't seem funny to me but the fact that dimpreepr -> The Grim Reaper CAME to comment on his post is kinda funny in a dark way Edited October 23, 2016 by koti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 That doesn't seem funny to me but the fact that dimpreepr -> The Grim Reaper CAME to comment on his post is kinda funny in a dark way No, it's not funny; grow up FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 No, it's not funny; grow up FFS. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriously disabled Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Is this a joke? No it's not a joke and you are an idiot for thinking that it's a joke. I am suffering from depression and depression is no joke. Many people commit suicide because of depression. I am too ugly and fat and no good-looking girl will ever want anything to do with me and that's a fact. Also I am suffering from severe financial, health and legal problems so being ugly and unlovable by women is the least of my problems right now. The only way to get out of the mess I got myself into is just dying and disappearing from this shitty and cruel planet forever. Edited October 28, 2016 by seriously disabled -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) No it's not a joke and you are an idiot for thinking that it's a joke. I may be an idiot but not because I ask questions. I am suffering from depression and depression is no joke. Many people commit suicide because of depression. Yes I know, I tried. I am too ugly and fat and no good-looking girl will ever want anything to do with me and that's a fact. This is why I asked, you sound like a parody. Also I am suffering from severe financial, health and legal problems so being ugly and unlovable by women is the least of my problems right now. The only way to get out of the mess I got myself into is just dying and disappearing from this shitty and cruel planet forever. No it's not, unless you expect someone to sort it for you? That doesn't mean YOU shouldn't seek help or try to solve the problem. Remember no one can predict the future, however certain it may seem; if your problem has a solution then solve it and stop worrying, if your problem doesn't have a solution then you can't solve it, so stop worrying and accept it; either way you're not being tortured by anyone other than yourself. Edited October 28, 2016 by dimreepr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampitump Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I know what seriously disabled is going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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