Trump's Denial of Groping

[Airbrush]

From the second debate:

 

ANDERSON COOPER: You describe kissing women without consent, grabbing their genitals. That is sexual assault. You bragged that you have sexually assaulted women. Do you understand that?

 

DONALD TRUMP: No, I didn't say that at all. I don't think you understood what was said. This was locker-room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it, but this is locker-room talk. You know, when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you have...(Trump goes on for a minute about ISIS)

 

COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women that I do.

 

COOPER: So, for the record, you’re saying you never did that?

 

TRUMP: I’ve said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women.

 

COOPER: Have you ever done those things?

 

TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you: No, I have not. And I will tell you that I will make this country safe. We're gonna have borders...."

 

First off he makes the absurd lie that he didn't say that at all after millions of people heard the recording. How can anyone not understand what was said? Again blatantly absurd on the face of it.

 

"It is just locker room talk" which he and his surrogates have been repeating ever since. He is apologizing for locker room talk then pivots to ISIS chopping off heads for a full minute to distract from the question, until Anderson could pull him back to the issue.

 

Here is the key to the whole issue. When asked if he ever did those things, Trump was evasive when he could easily have inserted a convenient lie and say "No I never did those things." He looked so rattled that he seems to have lost his train of thought so he blurts out his stand-by response "I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do."

 

So Anderson repeats his question and Donald still can't answer. Again he is rattled so he stutters and then blurts out the same thing in other words "I’ve said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women."

 

For the 3rd time Anderson asks "Have you ever done those things?"

 

Finally, the most important questions is finally answered with "And women have respect for me. And I will tell you: No, I have not. And I will tell you that I will make this country safe. We're gonna have borders....etc"

 

After asking 3 times if he actually did those things Trump finally says "No" but he will make our country safe. How badly he wants to avoid that question! He failed miserably and looks like a scoundrel. And that is exactly what prompted those women to come forward about him assaulting them with groping and kissing.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/13/anderson_cooper_debate_questioned_opened_floodgates_for_donald_trump_accusers.html

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Airbrush

[Delta1212]

Yeah... Talking around a question and giving an answer that seems to imply an answer without actually stating it outright three times before giving a straight yes or no is one of those really classic "This person is lying" tells.

 

I don't normally like to read into that kind of thing, but this was weirdly blatant.

[Ophiolite]

Blustering buffoon, I fear.

[swansont]

There are people in twitter questioning the timing of women coming forward ("Why now, so close to the election?") and asserting that this must be a conspiracy. As if Trump very publicly saying he never groped anyone wouldn't be enough of an impetus for some of them to do so.

[iNow]

Conspiracy asserting is far easier than responsibility taking

[Raider5678]

 

From the second debate:

 

ANDERSON COOPER: You describe kissing women without consent, grabbing their genitals. That is sexual assault. You bragged that you have sexually assaulted women. Do you understand that?

 

DONALD TRUMP: No, I didn't say that at all. I don't think you understood what was said. This was locker-room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it, but this is locker-room talk. You know, when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you have...(Trump goes on for a minute about ISIS)

 

COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women that I do.

 

COOPER: So, for the record, you’re saying you never did that?

 

TRUMP: I’ve said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women.

 

COOPER: Have you ever done those things?

 

TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you: No, I have not. And I will tell you that I will make this country safe. We're gonna have borders...."

 

First off he makes the absurd lie that he didn't say that at all after millions of people heard the recording. How can anyone not understand what was said? Again blatantly absurd on the face of it.

 

"It is just locker room talk" which he and his surrogates have been repeating ever since. He is apologizing for locker room talk then pivots to ISIS chopping off heads for a full minute to distract from the question, until Anderson could pull him back to the issue.

 

Here is the key to the whole issue. When asked if he ever did those things, Trump was evasive when he could easily have inserted a convenient lie and say "No I never did those things." He looked so rattled that he seems to have lost his train of thought so he blurts out his stand-by response "I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do."

 

So Anderson repeats his question and Donald still can't answer. Again he is rattled so he stutters and then blurts out the same thing in other words "I’ve said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women."

 

For the 3rd time Anderson asks "Have you ever done those things?"

 

Finally, the most important questions is finally answered with "And women have respect for me. And I will tell you: No, I have not. And I will tell you that I will make this country safe. We're gonna have borders....etc"

 

After asking 3 times if he actually did those things Trump finally says "No" but he will make our country safe. How badly he wants to avoid that question! He failed miserably and looks like a scoundrel. And that is exactly what prompted those women to come forward about him assaulting them with groping and kissing.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/13/anderson_cooper_debate_questioned_opened_floodgates_for_donald_trump_accusers.html

 

 

No offense, I could show you sooooooooooo many times when Obama, Hillary, Trump, Ted Cruz, and just about EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN, Republican and Democrat, answered questions like this when they CLEARLY should have just answered the first time. Like seriously, you pick THIS out of all of them. Hillary Clinton was asked multiple times if she was guilty in the "e-mail" scandal, and she avoided the question the ENTIRE time, and never answered at one of her interviews. If your being accused of something, and no matter what you say you will receive backlash for it, its common to just avoid the question. If this makes him guilty, then screw it, every politician is guilty.

[John Cuthber]

No offense, I could show you sooooooooooo many times when Obama, Hillary, Trump, Ted Cruz, and just about EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN, Republican and Democrat, answered questions like this when they CLEARLY should have just answered the first time. Like seriously, you pick THIS out of all of them. Hillary Clinton was asked multiple times if she was guilty in the "e-mail" scandal, and she avoided the question the ENTIRE time, and never answered at one of her interviews. If your being accused of something, and no matter what you say you will receive backlash for it, its common to just avoid the question. If this makes him guilty, then screw it, every politician is guilty.

OK, you say all politicians ignore questions, and you cite Hillary for doing so about the emails "scandal".

You say she never answered the questions.

The problem is that, unlike Trump, she did answer- and apologise.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34195144

 

Show me where Trump comes clean about admitting to sexual assault- a criminal act- and you will have a point.

The problem is that he can't.

If he says "OK, I'm a sex pest" then even his supporters won't swallow that (though their support won't matter much if he gets jailed for it).

So, that leaves the interesting question- why doesn't he simply say, clearly, that he didn't grope women?

 

Face up to the fact that he can't say that because the women would come forward and point out that , he's not just a criminal sex pest- but a dishonest one.

[Delta1212]

No offense, I could show you sooooooooooo many times when Obama, Hillary, Trump, Ted Cruz, and just about EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN, Republican and Democrat, answered questions like this when they CLEARLY should have just answered the first time. Like seriously, you pick THIS out of all of them. Hillary Clinton was asked multiple times if she was guilty in the "e-mail" scandal, and she avoided the question the ENTIRE time, and never answered at one of her interviews. If your being accused of something, and no matter what you say you will receive backlash for it, its common to just avoid the question. If this makes him guilty, then screw it, every politician is guilty.

The thing they're guilty of is usually not sexual assault, though.

[MigL]

This election is making the US a joke.

Who gives a damn about e-mails, Russian hackers, stupid insensitive locker room talk, goofy hair and finger size ?

When are the issues going to be discussed ?

 

I've said numerous times that I would cast my vote for H. Clinton, and D. Trump is a buffoon, and I'll add that I think Bill Clinton was a good president.

But I find it somewhat hypocritical, that those people who defended Bill's oval office antics as having nothing to do with the Presidency, are now outraged by Donald's private ( he thought ) remarks.

I still remember Gary Hart's presidential ambitions being dashed in 88 because of a picture. yet a few years later, rumors about Bill's indiscretions were already circulating. And I don't recall Hillary speaking out against Bill, or contacting her divorce lawyer, as that would ruin his presidential ambitions; instead she chose to blame the women involved, saying they were failed chorus line girls with no resume to fall back on ( seems Donald isn't the only one who disrespects women ). And by the time Bill became president, all of a sudden, his indiscretions were all part of a 'right wing conspiracy', and all his supporters claimed his private life had no bearing on the presidency anyway.

We now seem to have swung back to puritanical ways, since all the people who were ready to excuse Bill, are now shocked, not by what Donald does, but by what he says. Apparently its OK to be 'serviced' under the desk by an intern 40 yrs younger while smoking a 'dipped' cigar, than to fantasize about shooting a woman a 'grip'.

And speaking of grips, some of you guys should get one, since Donald just spoke about it, there is no evidence he actually did it.

Bill actually did it, and there's a DNA stained dress to prove it.

 

How's that old saying go...

" don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house "

[CharonY]

The thing is that it is just another heap on the huge pile of deplorable things that Trump has done, which individually would be an issue, but possible could be addressed. The fact that instead of apologizing he starts attacking (soldier parents, black folks, Mexicans etc.) just coalesce the image of him. Bill Clinton's affair is not that much of an issue as Trump had those too (so let's say they cancel out). The more important bit is certainly sexual assaults. In Bill's case sexual assault charges were made, but not proven (which does not necessarily mean that they did not happen). Yet Trump not only has to face these charges, but he actually bragged about them.

And again, while it seems to be the tipping point issue, it is just another bit on the shit stain that the campaign has become.

Edited October 13, 2016 by CharonY

[swansont]

The thing is that it is just another heap on the huge pile of deplorable things that Trump has done, which individually would be an issue, but possible could be addressed. The fact that instead of apologizing he starts attacking (soldier parents, black folks, Mexicans etc.) just coalesce the image of him. Bill Clinton's affair is not that much of an issue as Trump had those too (so let's say they cancel out). The more important bit is certainly sexual assaults. In Bill's case sexual assault charges were made, but not proven (which does not necessarily mean that they did not happen). Yet Trump not only has to face these charges, but he actually bragged about them.

And again, while it seems to be the tipping point issue, it is just another bit on the shit stain that the campaign has become.

Bill is also not running for president in this election.

[Delta1212]

Bill is also not running for president in this election.

In fairness to MigL, he was comparing the time that Bill was President to the current time with Trump, so in that sense, it's not an unfair comparison to make. It's something I've noted too, in that there have been quite a lot of role reversals between the parties as far as what arguments are being used and even some general relatives being espoused and the pangeantry of certain events as far as patriotic symbology, isolationism vs American foreign policy strength, etc.

 

I think there are some important differences between the situation with Bill Clinton and Trump's current situation, but I still do see where MigL's coming from here.

 

Trump even went so far as to blame the current allegations on a global conspiracy today, which is amusingly close to taking issue with a "vast left-wing conspiracy" and makes the parallel that much more bizarre.

[MigL]

Sure swansont, but when he WAS president, most Liberal/Democrats had no problem at all excusing Bill Clinton's behavior, arguing that his private life and attitude towards women had no bearing on his presidency, that it was all a 'massive right wing conspiracy', that women, young women, were attracted to his power and threw themselves at him, etc, etc.

Seems a little hypocritical for those same people to now argue that Donald Trump's behavior and attitude towards women is not presidential.

And as I said, CharonY, there is physical proof that the most powerful man on earth ( at the time ) took advantage of a young impressionable girl ( a few years out of her teens ). There is no evidence ( yet ) that D Trump has done any of the things he claims or is accused of doing.

Or is it OK to draw conclusions from innuendo in D. Trump's case, but not in H. Clinton's ( @ u swansont )

 

This presidential ( and I use the term loosely ) race has become a contest to dig up the most dirt on the opponent.

One candidate was always an idiot, and the other is starting to look more and more like one every day.

And the Republicans are imploding and fracturing, while the Democrats have proved they can be just as deceitful.

Its become a race to the bottom.

[Delta1212]

Personally, I think Trump's affairs and such are amusing because he's the candidate of the people who railed against Bill Clinton so damn hard for exactly the same thing, but I don't think they disqualify him as President.

 

The sexual harassment/assault bits are a bigger issue if they are true, and would be for both men in my eyes. Neither is proven at this point, however, there is audio of Trump joking about sexually assaulting women, which does lend some credence to the accusations being leveled, but even were none of them true, the tape alone displays an attitude towards women that I'd find troubling even if he was just "joking" about it.

 

In a worst case scenario, he has repeated committed sexual assault. In a best case scenario, he was making things up but thinks getting away with sexual assault would be something to brag about that would make him look good. That's a bit different to me than merely having an affair, which hasn't been a secret at any point so far in this election.

[iNow]

Accusations of equivalent hypocrisy ring hollow for me. IIRC, Bill Clinton already was president when those accusations really gained traction. Many of us may have voted differently had we known. Trump, however, is not yet president yet plenty of people are still quite happy to ignore this and the 749 or so other transgressions and vote for him anyway.

[rangerx]

Sure swansont, but when he WAS president, most Liberal/Democrats had no problem at all excusing Bill Clinton's behavior, arguing that his private life and attitude towards women had no bearing on his presidency, that it was all a 'massive right wing conspiracy', that women, young women, were attracted to his power and threw themselves at him, etc, etc.

 

Clinton never called a woman a pig or suggested blood coming out of their whatever when asked pointed questions. I didn't recall Bill caught by a hot mike suggesting his stardom precluded sexual assault. Did Bill belittle a woman, no less a presidental candidate on her appearance as disqualifying? Nope... didn't happen. Not a fair comparison at all.

 

Bill was a womanizer. Donald is lecherous. Big difference.

[zapatos]

Trump and his supporters have to do some serious mental gymnastics to feel comfortable calling these women who are coming forward "liars", when all they are doing is confirming what Trump claimed he did.

[MigL]

IIRC it was before the new Hampshire primary that the first scandal for B. Clinton dropped, iNow, not after he became president.

He lost that primary, but then 'came back'.

The Clinton strategy then ( and now ), seems to be one of questioning the motives and credibility of the accusers.

And although I don't recall Bill making disparaging remarks about women, do you think it shows any respect for a man of his power to have a young girl 40 yrs his junior, provide him with under-desk sexual services ? I do however recall Hillary laying the blame on the women for her husbands misdeeds, she called them failures with no qualifications. Is that respectful of women ? She stuck with him because he is the path to her presidency.

 

I'm not suggesting equivalence, and there's no question as to who is more capable of running the country, but as human beings they are both lacking. D. Trump thinks he deserves power and can do whatever he wants, while H. Clinton will do whatever it takes to get power

 

There is no doubt in my mind that H. Clinton will win the election, and she is the better candidate, but I feel sorry for my American neighbors having to pick between those two lame candidates. One is downright scary, and the fact that he has come so far is even more scary. And while I trust her to run the government efficiently enough, I wouldn't put anything past her. She has proved that she can get down and dirty in the mud.

 

Makes me wish B. Obama could run a third term.

[rangerx]

 

do you think it shows any respect for a man of his power to have a young girl 40 yrs his junior, provide him with under-desk sexual services ? I do however recall Hillary laying the blame on the women for her husbands misdeeds, she called them failures with no qualifications. Is that respectful of women ? She stuck with him because he is the path to her presidency.

 

 

Why ask a question when you assert an opinion for an answer?.

Truth is, we don't know why she stayed and pillow talk is not our business. Bill breached the public trust. He endured being impeached and was ultimately censured. I have no opinion because due process was served and a verdict was rendered. That's where it should have ended, but nooooooo. Hillary was a victim, yet demonized ever since. THAT sir, speaks to Republican disrespect of Hillary in more ways than one. Conservatives are having a hard time getting past any of anything she does ever since, by default. Nothing in American history is tantamount to the collective witch hunt to de-legitemize a human being, a citizen, a professional woman and patriotic civil servant.

 

Hillary lied about her email server. Republicans and conservatives need to get over it. And themselves. Again, not directed at you MigL personally, but the broad assertion that her "lies" makes her unfit for office is the greatest lie of all.

 

 

 

[John Cuthber]

Donald just spoke about it, there is no evidence he actually did it.

 

Setting aside, for the minute, the fact that Bill's not standing so his actions are irrelevant,

There are women who say Trump did it and he says he did it.

 

More importantly, while what Trump did was (perhaps) immoral; what Trump says he did was illegal.

 

Do you accept that it's not "puritanism" to uphold the law- especially as it applies to contenders for the highest office in government?

[swansont]

This election is making the US a joke.

Who gives a damn about e-mails, Russian hackers, stupid insensitive locker room talk, goofy hair and finger size ?

When are the issues going to be discussed ?

 

I've said numerous times that I would cast my vote for H. Clinton, and D. Trump is a buffoon, and I'll add that I think Bill Clinton was a good president.

But I find it somewhat hypocritical, that those people who defended Bill's oval office antics as having nothing to do with the Presidency, are now outraged by Donald's private ( he thought ) remarks.

I still remember Gary Hart's presidential ambitions being dashed in 88 because of a picture. yet a few years later, rumors about Bill's indiscretions were already circulating. And I don't recall Hillary speaking out against Bill, or contacting her divorce lawyer, as that would ruin his presidential ambitions; instead she chose to blame the women involved, saying they were failed chorus line girls with no resume to fall back on ( seems Donald isn't the only one who disrespects women ). And by the time Bill became president, all of a sudden, his indiscretions were all part of a 'right wing conspiracy', and all his supporters claimed his private life had no bearing on the presidency anyway.

We now seem to have swung back to puritanical ways, since all the people who were ready to excuse Bill, are now shocked, not by what Donald does, but by what he says. Apparently its OK to be 'serviced' under the desk by an intern 40 yrs younger while smoking a 'dipped' cigar, than to fantasize about shooting a woman a 'grip'.

And speaking of grips, some of you guys should get one, since Donald just spoke about it, there is no evidence he actually did it.

Bill actually did it, and there's a DNA stained dress to prove it.

 

How's that old saying go...

" don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house "

 

 

You, and much of the GOP it seems, are confused about the recent outrage. It's not about having an affair. It's about sexual assault. Donnie boy bragged about assaulting women, then claimed that he never did such things, and we know that's not true — several women have come forward to confirm that they were sexually assaulted.

In fairness to MigL, he was comparing the time that Bill was President to the current time with Trump, so in that sense, it's not an unfair comparison to make. It's something I've noted too, in that there have been quite a lot of role reversals between the parties as far as what arguments are being used and even some general relatives being espoused and the pangeantry of certain events as far as patriotic symbology, isolationism vs American foreign policy strength, etc.

 

I think there are some important differences between the situation with Bill Clinton and Trump's current situation, but I still do see where MigL's coming from here.

 

Trump even went so far as to blame the current allegations on a global conspiracy today, which is amusingly close to taking issue with a "vast left-wing conspiracy" and makes the parallel that much more bizarre.

 

 

I don't. Comparing affairs to assault shows a certain blindness to the situation. This is not a subtle distinction that's being made here. As John Cuthber points out, it's comparing a possibly immoral situation with a definitely illegal one.

[Ophiolite]

You, and much of the GOP it seems, are confused about the recent outrage. It's not about having an affair. It's about sexual assault. Donnie boy bragged about assaulting women, then claimed that he never did such things, and we know that's not true — several women have come forward to confirm that they were sexually assaulted.

My opinions of Trump are clear and negative, but this is incorrect. They have alleged that they were sexually assaulted. Quite a different matter from confirming.

[swansont]

My opinions of Trump are clear and negative, but this is incorrect. They have alleged that they were sexually assaulted. Quite a different matter from confirming.

 

 

 

You claimed there was no evidence, which is not true. There are eyewitnesses, who were the targets of the assault, and eyewitness testimony is admissible as evidence.

[Delta1212]

 

 

You, and much of the GOP it seems, are confused about the recent outrage. It's not about having an affair. It's about sexual assault. Donnie boy bragged about assaulting women, then claimed that he never did such things, and we know that's not true several women have come forward to confirm that they were sexually assaulted.

 

 

 

I don't. Comparing affairs to assault shows a certain blindness to the situation. This is not a subtle distinction that's being made here. As John Cuthber points out, it's comparing a possibly immoral situation with a definitely illegal one.

People have been criticizing Trump for his immoral personal life since before the sexual assault allegations became an issue. If MigL was referring specifically to the sexual assault claims and not making a broader statement, then I agree with you.

[swansont]

People have been criticizing Trump for his immoral personal life since before the sexual assault allegations became an issue. If MigL was referring specifically to the sexual assault claims and not making a broader statement, then I agree with you.

 

 

"now outraged by Donald's private ( he thought ) remarks" is a pretty clear reference to the carpe vaginam boast.

 

edit: Latin corrected