Falling ''into'' a black hole

[imatfaal]

Great explanations imatfaal. ++1

 

Do you happen to know if Einstein also recognized that GR was beyond its realm of application?

 

Thanks zapatos. These results come from the work of Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking - Penrose published (about infinite curvature aka time-like singularity) in 1965 and Hawking published (about Space-like singularity and Big Bang Singularity) in 1973. Both of these were well after Einstein died in 1955 - 10 years is probably long enough that no discussions would have even made their way to Einstein; this would especially be the case as both were young mathematical physicists at the time of their papers rather than the well respected professors (which they both became) who might have dropped a line to Einstein with their ideas

You understood everything I said except this part. I know there isn't a number before infinity, this is not the point.

I mean the highest possible density before the structure of atoms/protons/whatever is the appropriate base particle breaks down. (breaks the nuclear force?)

From then on, I could see how the density could reach infinity but I would use the term ''maximum density'' instead of ''infinite density'' for clarity.

 

Maximum density, infinite density, ultimate density - doesn't matter what you call it. We are certain that the structure DOES breakdown - because atomic nature of material is lost in neutron stars and thus we cannot see why it wouldn't be in black holes. The counteraction to gravity is due to the quantum mechanic idea of fermionic exclusion - you cannot get fermions too close together. But whatever it is named we do not know

In my theory, the radius of a black hole would mathematically turn up as either zero or infinitesimal (I'm not 100% sure on this one) WHEN MEASURED FROM OUTSIDE the event horizon. Inside, it could be any value it pleases (that is not the theory itself; that would be stupid, but it is a result of the theory). In this theory, infinite density wouldn't be any kind of impossibility or spawn any paradoxes.

 

I know none of this probably makes any sense to you, but I don't want to post the full theory until I've learned more about physics.

 

Remember to post any ideas in Speculations - and be aware if it is anything to do with the interior of a black hole then you are gonna need tonnes of maths; there is no empirical experimentation. At present our ideas are based on interlocking and internally referential maths - that's why the singularity provides such a worry - and any change would need to engage with this maths

[Lord Antares]

OK thanks. I will check out fermionic exclusion.

 

By the way, it wouldn't have much to explain about the inside of the event horizon, only the fact that it would be allowed to have value for size inside but would show up at zero or infinitesimal when looked from the outside of the event horizon. Thanks anyway.

[Strange]

Sorry for being stubborn but it's just hard for me to believe singularities work.

 

 

They don't.

 

 

It's supposed to be infinitesimal. That's like saying ''the first number before infinity'', but instead it's ''the first number after zero''. It's just hard to believe.

 

They are not supposed to be infinitesimal, they are supposed to be infinitely dense and have infinite curvature. But as they don't exist (outside of theory) .... <shrug>

I know and this is exactly what I am talking about. I wasn't talking about outside volume. I was thinking of the inside volume of the smallest possible particles if such a thing is known. You guys said that this would be the neutron, which I'm happy with, but then there's quarks and quantum physics particles and it all gets confusing there.

 

 

The neutron is not the smallest possible particle. The electron (and other fundamental particles) have zero size.

In other words, reaching infinity is logically impossible unless unless there is an exact point before infinity. Reaching infinity gradually can obviously not be achieved.

 

 

Why not? Look at a graph of the tan function. It reaches infinity (gradually) at pi/2.

[futuretech1281]

To my own study and understanding of BLACK HOLE. I see space particles, I like to call it BUBBLE PARTICLE. BP is what space is made of. BP is not meant to have motion, like tiny marbles inside a class jar. But it is there for other live particles to travel through. So there for when a great explosion happens, it creates motion on the BUBBLE PARTICLES of space, creating a BLACK HOLE. Think of the BUBBLE PARTICLES like water inside a balloon with no movement until you puncture a hole on the balloon creating water to move in motion toward the hole. Falling into a BLACK HOLE I believe will only shred your body into particles and then takes it to the end of the tunnel and stick your particles back on.🙂 THE END