Strange Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Simplify a bit - most people would think of the wheel doing big spin/big rotation, which is more catered to motion wheel; - whereas there is another type of rotation, continuous small rotations, which the wheel would seem to be doing one whole revolution by our naked eyes. What, exactly, is the difference between these. Either the wheel turns or it doesn't. Obviously it doesn't. You need to do the calculations of the contribution of every weight in order to understand why not. Stop drawing meaningless pictures and do the maths.
imatfaal Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 ! Moderator Note Last chance to do the maths and provide a bit of rigour - it doesn't have to be right (in fact if it is right it will show that your OP is incorrect) but it does have to be provided. The devil is in the details in perp motion machines- you can even avoid engaging with friction and just look at the torques. A normal wheel (in the absence of frictions) will continue to turn as it has an angular momementum and has zero external torque - see if you can provide a full (and it must be full) list of the torques on any wheel that you claim to be overbalanced. This must be your next post or the thread will be locked.
wheelMetal Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 ! Moderator Note Last chance to do the maths and provide a bit of rigour - it doesn't have to be right (in fact if it is right it will show that your OP is incorrect) but it does have to be provided. The devil is in the details in perp motion machines- you can even avoid engaging with friction and just look at the torques. A normal wheel (in the absence of frictions) will continue to turn as it has an angular momementum and has zero external torque - see if you can provide a full (and it must be full) list of the torques on any wheel that you claim to be overbalanced. This must be your next post or the thread will be locked. Sadly I have no idea how to do the maths that you're expecting, but before you locks the thread, at least indicate how you will do the maths, I can learn from it.
DrP Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Ha! Shame I can't link to stuff on here at work.... I'll link you to the maths of it when I get home. Your wheel is the same as the wheel that has all 6s and 9s around the spokes of it... the figures are 6s on one side and (this is the cleaver part) they are 9s on the other side when they have been tipped over. 9s being heavier than 6s tip the wheel in the direction of the 9s... but the 9s become 6s on the other side of the wheel and so the wheel turns continually. Your wheel is the same at that. Exactly the same. Type "Mathematical Perpetual Motion" into google - there are links to images there that depict this wheel.
EdEarl Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Your pic: shows 4 and 8 spoke wheels. Simplify to 2 spokes. If a 2 spoke wheel won't turn, adding spokes will not make it turn.
swansont Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 There's also the symmetry issue. Whatever happens on one side, the opposite will be happening at 180º. There is simply no way to have a continually unbalanced wheel.
Strange Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Sadly I have no idea how to do the maths that you're expecting, but before you locks the thread, at least indicate how you will do the maths, I can learn from it. So you have no reason to think it will work. As you cannot do the maths, this link (provided earlier) gives a good explanation of why it cannot work: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/overbal.htm More detail here: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/centgrav.htm
wheelMetal Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 There's also the symmetry issue. Whatever happens on one side, the opposite will be happening at 180º. There is simply no way to have a continually unbalanced wheel. This is where the swinging weights come into play. First by combining a balanced swinging weights & a symmetry wheels together, we still get a balanced wheel that looks symmetry. Then placed the swinging weights on top of the circles, it changes the symmetry look of the wheel by rising the circles, but the torque force on both sides is still equal. At this point while the wheel is still balanced, the circles roll down, and that changes the balance of the wheel, so the wheel has to revolve a few degrees to balance itself. All the images example above are just basic explanation Notice that the swinging weights will either be facing to the left, or pointing downward, but never face to the right. So the swinging weights will always increase the torque force on the left side. Notice the circle weights have an altitude higher on the right side of the wheel, and lower on the left side. So the circle weights will always increase the torque force on the right side. Let's say the image above, torque gained by swinging weights cancel out torque of the risen circles, the wheel is in balanced state, notice some of the circles are in the rolling down position.
DrP Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 It doesn't work though does it... The only one that works on paper is the 6s and 9s one.
EdEarl Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Your overbalanced wheel is an illusion, as the following is an illusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Impossible_staircase.svg
John Cuthber Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) "A new perspective on Overbalanced Wheel" Well, the old perspective was that the wheel doesn't work, and the new perspective is that it still won't. Why is this thread still open? Edited October 27, 2016 by John Cuthber
imatfaal Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 ! Moderator Note It doesn't work though does it... The only one that works on paper is the 6s and 9s one. Nothing works on paper if you do the sums correctly - there are NO over unity machines, all real world machines are under unity, and even zero friction theoretical models can only reach unity (like a wheel) DR P Open a new thread if you feel you can provide a rigorous calculation giving over unity This thread is now locked.
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